Carrie, Quinn, Saul and Dar too.

[Hassled]

Previous Homeland thread - new thread for the sake of inter-episode tidiness.

Not sure. I think it was relevant that there is a big hawkish contingent -and Dar is front and centre.

And the PE is very critical of the USA's recent military operations, hence she is their enemy.

Not working today but I think I need to feign illness and catch up on all finer points of detail from the last two weeks episodes......

Ah yes! And he/they will have been behind her being sequestered after the bomb went off too. To paint her as cowardly ultra-dove.

Do it, Trav. Post the details, and I'll ring in sick for you.

What I don't understand is Dar's motive. What is he hoping to achieve with all this badness? So he wants to convince people that Iran are working with the North Koreans when they aren't - why? How does he gain? What would he gain by the Iranian "truce" being abandoned? Am I being really thick? So many questions.

The Mossad mate of Saul's said, when they met on the dock, that if Saul and Dar had fallen out, then they needed to know.

It just seems too obvious that Dar is doing everything he can to keep the status quo - playing Saul and the PE and Carrie and Quinn - after 6 series I don't trust myself

I haven't a fucking clue what's going on.

Mumsnet changed the thread title typo! Thank you MNHQ. Saul Snacks are on me.

Bless you lovely MNHQ. 💑👍💘❤💓💕💗💖💙💚💛💜💝💟

:they're watching us:

There was a reference to Dar grooming a teenage Quinn in Berlin last series, I think after Quinn had been rescued and was in hospital in a bad way. Dar said it to Carrie.

I don't think anyone took it as "grooming" other than for the CIA work.

I can't remember the exact words, but I certainly understood it to involve sex. Possibly to do with compromising powerful people the CIA wanted to silence?

From recaps of the last season.

"Dar tells Carrie that his group found Quinn when he was 16 in a foster home in Baltimore. "He was a natural from the start," he says."

"a boy found in a Baltimore foster home at 16, someone “real,” yet “pretty enough” to attract useful attention — has left us with an image of desperation, even exploitation, that brings to mind the trafficked teenagers holed up in the Russian not-so-safe house where Allison waits for transit out of Germany."

I think I was thinking of him being a killer, then, not something else.

Oh, good find.

It was the 'pretty' bit that struck me, I think. I understood it as implying teenage Quinn's looks and appeal were important to his usefulness, at least initially, and that he might have been used in 'honeytrap' situations. It was a horrible backstory hint then, and though I haven't yet seen the most recent episode you were discussing, more detail only sounds even nastier.

What does Dar aim to achieve by getting Franny taken into care? Is he planning to do a deal with Carrie 'call off your investigation into the bomb and i'll get you Franny back?'

Evil though he may be, Dar told Quinn the truth - Carrie got the German docs to bring Quinn round despite the risks to Quinn. If she hadn't done that he might not be in such a bad way now. Looking back I'm surprised the German docs agreed to do it.

What will actually happen is that Astrid will pick up on something Quinn said about the bomb, and team up (reluctantly) with Carrie.

But Dar was trying to turn Quinn against Carrie. He's trying - and possibly succeeded in turning the PE against Carrie. He told Carrie that she didn't realise how vulnerable she was - he's proven it by showing how unsafe her home is and by taking her daughter. I presume it's because she's right about something rather than just because he's an arse

But why would Dar go to all that trouble to compromise Carrie? She's no one important.

Wonder I think Carrie may have turned the PE against Carrie! "it's just a call" - um, no.

Agree, why does Dar need to discredit Carrie? She has no view on the Iran nuclear agreement does she? Though it's true she did take Quinn seriously and followed up the photos. If she discovers Dar/rogue CIA were behind the bomb, that wouldn't be good for Dar!

Carrie was advising the PE and messing up with putting muslim boys away for "conspiracy to terrorism".

Dar didn't even have to have a huge master plan. He knew Carrie would lose it when he arranged for Frannie to be taken.

This is the leap I'm struggling to make - on the one hand Dar wants to discredit the Iran nuclear thing. I don't understand why, but there you go. But then on the other hand he wants Carrie to be discredited, even though she's played no part in the Iran nuclear thing other than originally advising the PE to send Saul to get more information. So it is the Carrie destruction personal rather than business for Dar?

Again, I've not seen this episode, so don't know whether we've had any further details on precisely how Carrie ended up being an advisor to the PE is Otto the link? but I assumed it was at least in part Carrie's 'dove-ish' influence on the PE that got Dar so exercised...?

It could just be that he doesn't want anyone influencing the President but himself.

YY Dar is a hawk! He doesn't want anything even vaguely pigeon-shaped, never mind doves.

He's sidelining Saul and wants Carrie out of the way.

Dar is behind the bombing, imo.