Swagger Inn thread 134 - the one where the wenches recover from too much FAFness from Musketeers

[SisterHelenoftheEternalCatchUp]

Welcome to Thread 134 of rampant Muskeperving over plot appreciation of BBCMusketeers and their FAF actors.

We're in recovery from Episode six Sex still, so help yourselves to a drink from the bar, apart from the pre-poured whiskies. They're for VIPs. Obvs - if you're a VIP, help yourself

7/10 because I'm enjoying it - so there

obi - as wicked said, the plot thing is an ongoing joke. "Plot? What Plot - have you seen the FAF HBFs etc etc." Sorry - had assumed you had lurked enough to pick up the usual intellectual level of chat
(HBFs - Hot Beardy fuckers; FAF fit as Fuck>
Anyway - writing. My point (badly made, as usual) was not that I thought S1 & S2 were badly written - I dont think they were. It's more that I don't think S3 is particularly bad. I think if it suffers from anything, it's that they're trying to do an awful lot in a short space of time. I remember an interview with AdrianH where he said how hard it was to give all the characters decent screen time and plots. It must be even worse now that they've got more characters. I think a lot is being implied but not shown, which is going over the heads of some viewers. I keep picking up comments about 'stuff that had to be cut' from interviews, so that must be detrimental to the story...
e.g. Dog's comment to Athos when he said that "if he sent his cousin to the scaffold it would be on his conscience for ever, and that Athos of all people should understand that". (paraphrased) I saw that VERY clearly as a reference to the fact that Athos regretted sending Milady to hang. But someone on twitter wasn't sure and was asking for it to be explained - so the implication obviously wasn't as blatant as I thought it was.

I have no comment on the POC issue - am entirely unqualified to comment. I saw the flogging scene as plot device to get Syvlie rescued from a rather grim and visual punishment, and for her need looking after in the aftermatch. More dramatic and less repetitive than rescuing her from the noose. Plus it gets to emphasise Marchaud's sadistic leanings.

I was waiting for Sylvie's back story.... Still waiting.

2rebecca Musketeers has form for that type of casting - POC being cast in "holier than thou" roles like the guy who gets killed in "Ordinary Man" or the gorgeous Antonia Thomas, or in guest roles that are ambiguous but turn out good(Colin Salmon) while of course, the vilains are almost all northern/Celtic not just Musketeers of course and I would love to see POC in a BBC drama in a fantastically multi-layered evil role! But there seems oversensitivity about casting this....

Dramas expecting you to look beyond colour is fine by me, it's just odd in Musketeers to make it a key point of show in 2 series then pretend doesn't exist in third, other than making dubious choices about the character eg using flogging for first time ever in 3 series...

helen yes that dog /athos interaction WAS obvious... Did that really need explaining??

We'll have to wait for someone to introduce Sylvie to someone else:
"Hi, This is Syvlie. she came to Paris as a refugee from the war with her father - a long standing revolutionary and member of the Army Of Suffering (or whatever they were called) Her mother was a freed slave who died when she was young, and Sylvie has been traising from place to place with her father since then (until he died a few weeks ago), keeping one step ahead of people who disagree with their revolutionary tendencies."

As per Constance's description to Dog: "That's the Duke of Beaufort - grain from his estates feeds most of Paris." and do you remember that wonderful scene where Treville and the Cardinal walked along explaining the entire plot to each other, disguised as a conversation? Oh happy days....

sisterhelen it's a fair point about amount to fit in with huge cast, but then they chose to have so many villains and have "filler" episodes like a gold heist very like s1 Sleight of Hand instead of stuff central to Musketeers...
Don't get me wrong I think some of the individual villains are great, but no idea why so many all with motives and screen time meanwhile my Porthos only got three lines in the last episode.

oh - I have no idea of the accuracy, but re. POC in C17th France, I googled (so it's all true, obvs.) and found this:
afroeurope.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/history-of-black-people-in-europe.html
and:
www.blackpast.org/perspectives/black-presence-pre-20th-century-europe-hidden-history
Both of which seem to say that Class was more important than Colour at that time.

My recollection of the POC issue in S2 (the Colin Salmon episode) was rather laboured - esp the girl (can't remember her name) who seemed to rather bang on at Porthos about how he was black and thus would never be accepted in French society.
Anyway, I said I wasn't commenting n that issue. I lied, obviously.

Ariadne - yes, someone really did ask. (Unless they were just desperate for a reason to tweet the writers. )

ObiWan yes re. 'fillers' I get what you mean, def. jave a pretty picture.

I really MUST get some work done. Summer hols plays havock with working hours

(that means i will stay on MN for the next hour or so)

SisterHelen I'm not sure I understand your point via the links? No-one has said there weren't POC in 17c Paris. Iirc the point was interracial relationship between a nobleman and WOC from slum not even warranting a mention, even from his close friend who in last 2 series has had storylines about challenges of being born low class POC ... And how the writers have chosen to depict a 17c WOC.

Obiwan, It echoed with what rebecca said: in Merlin they discussed Arthur not marrying Gwen because she was a servant and her colour was never mentioned. It didn't occur to me from C21st perspective that class would be more of an issue than race was. So that's my new nugget of information for the day.

Red's review is up
Anyone for an Aramis Wall Hanging to decorate their house?

Oh FFS Helen that^^ was a link to the twitter link. the actual review is here

I should stop working (obviously I did for a bit anyway) and go to bed. Not going to happen just yet

Evening wenches - all this scrapping over Athos is getting me all nostalgic

Another fan of Mark Harmon here - bit of a silver fox

helen, thank you for the Aramis order

welcome obi - think wicked has explained the red card issue already! We predominantly perv in here - with all the blatant objectification of the hot men, we're probably on shaky ground when it comes to discussing serious issues . Agree that not addressing Sylvie's colour is irritating though, especially in a show that has always addressed Porthos's ancestry. It's like we're all supposed to not notice & believe that none of the other characters would either. Odd.

apricot - think it would have been after this date that there was any understanding of infection and what caused it. Interesting story here about man who realised that obstetricians washing their hands meant less cases of puerperal fever. It wasn't until Pasteur's & Lister's later work that the reason for this was understood though - and that was mid 19C. Dr Lemay was truly ahead of his time

Can I get back to perving now?

night all

Morning

Off to Drs with both DC today!
Ds1 has asthma check and ds2 has hit weird lumps on his elbows
FML
I am phoning the supervisor of midwives at the hospital today to request a debrief
Maybe that will help?
It's the 3rd anniversary of my dads death on weds so it's going to be a strange week
Love to all X

Morning wenches.

Massive huge wenchy for you Badderz.

Welcome Obi

Morning all!

Interesting article Fancy. It's a wonder anyone lived beyond childhood in those days. I know they didn't understand about infection then, but I mentioned the salt water because they always did that in films like Spartacus when someone had been flogged.

for Bads. Hope DCs are alright.

Well I have DGS1 for today and tomorrow. I'm fine with little girls, but I'm useless when it comes to boys. Think of me kindly etc.

Apes..what age is he?... If he's primary age pop him in the garden with a paddling pool, Nerf gun, sword etc
My two love badminton too
Lego?
If all else fails, Minecraft 😀

He's 5 Bads. He's got various vehicles to drive/ride on here, which is what he's most interested in. And he'll happily flood water the garden and himself with the hose. He's not interested in lego and hasn't discovered Minecraft yet. He'll play on the iPad all day if I let him, but I don't like too much screentime.

Mooooorning!!!!

Me and ds are off to get our hairs cut then watch the bfg today. Happy days!

Had a great weekend at the beach then watched the ep last night. Felt it started off promisingly, then disappointingly lost its way a bit. Apart from the arafaf.

When he was hanging by his wrists, for a moment I thought they were going to continue with the Star Wars reffing and get him to will his rosary towards him using the power of the Force.

Im not that arsed about sylvie and athos though I can see why team b are a bit gutted cos milady is so fab. Agree with helen and apes tbh. Critiquing this show for historical / social accuracy or whatever, a bit like shooting fish in a barrel imo. Horses for courses. Probably why we keep it lighter here in general. Though feel free to natter about whatever here, or if you prefer, on a more serious thread, obvs.

The show has disappointed a lot of people I know, and let's face it, it isn't cutting edge tv, but I just see it as a bit of mindless fun tbh.

Dont have a problem with porthos's ethnicity being part of the plot and sylvie's not. Porthos is supposedly a main character and sylvie isnt. And I think colourblind acting roles are a good thing generally.

Aneeeyway. Must read Red's review a bit later.

Morning wenches

Didn't know that about the salt water apricot - see MN is so educational

knew you'd like all that AraFaf madame.

Fancy I use cooled boiled water with salt added for eye and teeth problems. I can sometimes avoid having to take antibotics, many of which I'm allergic to. And I remember having lovely salt baths after having both the DC.

Something here for all of us....

Strong Women

OMC Tom looks good! And he's so adorable in the end when he talks about Milady