Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again.

As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow.

It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

Thank you for the update.

Thank you for all you are doing to help. It cannot be pleasant for you. x

Thank you. This must be a nightmare, and I appreciate that yesterday in particular must have been really tough. I hope your post will calm things down on here now.

Thank you for this clear update and the outline of what you are doing to deal with the issue.

Please can you outline what you are/will be doing about the site only being moderated by volunteers overnight (UK time) who can't see when threads have been reported using the report button and who have limited actions available to them when something untoward happens.

Should something similar get through new filters, there needs to be a better way of handling it than was possible on Sunday night/Early hours Monday morning. I don't think relying on AI filters is sufficient to protect us from being exposed to vileness of all sorts of different kinds - not just CSA

I am a very long term Mnetter who gets a lot from sharing on various parts of the site. I am not a bad faith actor or a troll and do not wish to inflame things but I really strongly feel that this situation needs to be addressed too. Please can you tell us what your thoughts are about this aspect too.

for the Night Watch who should not have been subjected to this

Any update on the NW volunteers - are they being supported? Are you going to implement a proper moderation system now, rather than relying on untrained unpaid volunteers? Could you make clear what users should do in future, now that we know that reports are not looked at outside of business hours?

your reports really help us to act swiftly
Somewhat ironic given a big issue is that reports made during the night don't get seen.

Is this why the moderators are being so trigger happy? Anyone who posts anything even remotely disagreeing with an OP is being deleted, even when the OP is being rude and argumentative.

@JustineMumsnet

There have been many users asking how this could have happened and whether or not you have the appropriate mechanisms in place for such a large scale business. The feeling by many is that you do not and using volunteers who do not have the necessary training or resources to properly moderate your website overnight is quite inadequate.

As your website is very large-scale, what changes are you making aside from using AI filters? Do you accept that your website is serving a public service and therefore you need to take safeguarding seriously.

Will you be more transparent please about this incident across your website? Will you apologise publicly to users for having been exposed to these horrendous images? This is only posted in Site Stuff.

That's probably one of the steps that will be changing. I guess there will be some sort of on-call rota between MN engineers so action can be taken 24hrs a day.

Thanks for the official update, MNHQ. It happens on lots of different forums and outlets but it's the first time it's happened here afaik. Lots of lessons can be learnt, and things put in place to prevent it from happening again 👏

We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly.

What does this mean? Do you mean you will close down any debate or criticism on how you have handled this terrible incident?

That's not a good look is it. I am incredibly distressed this has happened. I have relied on this website a lot for very personal situations. But your handling and response of this incident is terrible.

Thank you for the update. How will the message get to those that don't look at Site Stuff, that the report button doesn't work during the night?

That's a lot of assumptions. I'd like to hear it stated clearly - maybe news will come in a few days.

It seems clear that the Night Watch system does not work.

The NW don't see when a thread is reported, only when someone tells them on the NW thread - so when people were hitting Report on these images, no-one was seeing that immediately.

The NW are unpaid volunteers, and should not be faced with dealing with images like that, or the fallout from them over several hours, without back up. I am guessing that the NW don't have any way to alert paid MNHQ staff immediately, if there is a serious issue like this one, so they were left to deal with this alone.

I appreciate that you are dealing with a difficult issue, @JustineMumsnet, but would like to add my voice to the many others who have said that you need to rethink the NW system, and make sure there are paid mods available overnight, so reports are seen and dealt with immediately.

Could you also please reassure us that MNHQ are putting in place measures to help and support the posters and the NW staff who saw these images. I can only imagine how traumatic it was for them.

@JustineMumsnet

Please can you confirm that you have now appointed paid moderators with full access to reports to work overnight?

It is unacceptable for a site of this size and traffic to be in the hands of volunteers with no access to reports and limited powers to remove posts/threads/posters and no professional back up or out of hours access to MNHQ staff.

Ironic that they are doing a better job of shutting down discussion about this attack than actually shutting down the attack in the first place.

I'd like to be reassured that more resources are going into protecting their users than into stopping us from discussing this. Or indeed, into supporting those users who saw the images.

I didn't see any of the images, thankfully. I've never seen csa images on any site, ever. I once saw a really nasty image on twitter (maybe 10 years ago) that upsets me to this day. I consider the fact that these images were all over MN for HOURS and so many people saw them to be shocking and disturbing and the way MN are trying to underplay and minimise is really upsetting.

Please stop banning threads and posters talking about this. People have a right to know and understand what's happened.

Thank you for the update.
It was a dreadful night. I reported and it was over ten minutes that the images were up. I had to see them to be able to hit report. Then I remembered that it had to be posted on NightWatch. It was over 15 minutes.

Poor NightWatch were so upset. And then they had to deal with it all night.

Just adding my voice of concern about the apparent under-reaction.

Your MW volunteers were presumably acting in good faith when they asked users reporting the images to share the URLs on which they appeared, not realising that they were encouraging the "making" and "distributing" of images of CSA.

Your response, above, does not go anywhere near far enough.

Thank you. I appreciate this response. I hope my thread doesn't mean I'm a bad faith actor. I genuinely wanted some clarity and communication on the situation. This post has addressed this for me. Thank you.

Thanks for the update Justine.

Do you think it would be helpful to provide some links to support for those affected by the images? I'm sure you're arranging it for nightwatch volunteers, but many regular MNers were impacted too.

I really hope arrangements are being made for appropriate trauma counselling for the NW volunteers who were left to deal with the situation over a five hour period.

What have the police said?

To provide any such support would amount to admittance of responsibility / liability to their users for the incident. They will have been advised against this for now by their legal team.

I wasn't on the site when the attack happened, but it sounds horrendous. I'm so glad I didn't see the images. Sending hugs to those who did. 💐

I reported a post unbelievably playing down csa images, and I expect many others did too, and yet it's still up. 🤷‍♀️