Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again.

As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow.

It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

What happened?

thank you for the update. I felt physically sick when I seen them posted on a completely normal post.

It’s worth noting that many large platforms rely almost entirely on volunteer moderators.

I think reddit is different, in the sense that you have far more control over the community you are modding, you basically own it in a sense, but also are those large platforms, largely women based, with a CEO that often writes and campaigns wonderfully about the sex pay gap, the struggles of women in workplace and the unpaid work that women do at home? Feels a bit :/ to do these great campaigns, and then run part of the business on unpaid volunteer work.
If its an important job to your business, pay them? If its not important you can remove the NW and it wont be a problem as they're not critical or important to the running.

Bath faith actors - interesting terminology

I always assumed the reason I'd never seen CSA or pornographic images was because there was a system in place stopping them being posted.

Mumsnet need to start being more proactive about these types of problems, and have systems in place before they happen.

Thank you, but will you be employing proper paid moderation as a result, rather than relying on “tools”? Not a troll, just can’t believe a site which makes this much revenue is skimping on staff!

Exactly. It was pretty obvious there were shenanigans.

Still people want blood. It's being dealt with. Some people need to take a breath and log out for a bit for their own sakes.

The thing is, even if there were shenanigans, and I tend to agree there was some of that going on, innocent posters on this site were still subjected to horrific images. MN have long been aware of issues with security and late night modding, and haven't done anything about it, so I think people who are upset or asking for answers have every right to do so.

My questions is why they want to rely on “tools” rather than employing people to keep a proper watch. I didn’t realise they relied on volunteers before, which has really annoyed me! All those people who had to witness these images because they are too cheapskate to resource the moderation of such a big forum.

So blood in other words?

I didn’t see the images although I did see a link on the report which thankfully I chose not to click on. So sorry for everyone who was misfortunate enough to see them. I’m always super cautious about clicking on links so perhaps this is something that also needs stopped for the moment?

So is there a moderator/admin scheduled to be 'working' 24/7? Or is it a "if you see something when you happen to be browsing, please deal with it?
Again, how are you communicating to ALL users about the night watch set up?

And yet still no signposting to resources to support those affected by this. You don't actually really care do you? Other than how it might affect the business?

Have you had to view the images posted @JustineMumsnet ?

It’s not about wanting blood. It’s about asking a huge forum to protect its users in the proper manner, especially as this is not the first time there have been issues. That’s not a bad thing nor is it too much to ask. It’s important to have these discussions.

No?

Why are people trying to minimise MN's role in this and their response to this? They're a multi-million pound business not some little side-hustle with few resources. I think just a little more honesty and a little more recognition that things went badly wrong wouldn't go a miss. No need to be so dramatic.

There still seems to be a degree of minimisation in your update. How was this allowed to happen? Why were no changes made since past incidents (I remember when images of mutilated dead bodies were spammed around the site)? Why were there no filters in place? You waited until we saw images of child sexual abuse (and in law you became the publisher of them). And now you are considering filters?!
This was entirely preventable (and frankly foreseeable that some kind of illegal content would eventually be uploaded as there were no filters).

Ironically, it's not the "darkweb type stuff" that has been harmful, it's CSA content being hosted by a major mainstream parenting website.

It was pretty obvious there were shenanigans.
Those type of images are not shenanigans FFS

I’m shocked to learn that using the ‘report’ button only works during office hours. Unacceptable, I believe. MN has enough £££ and longevity of presence to be more aware of the risks and take appropriate steps to make sure this gaping chasm is addressed.

@JustineMumsnet

But but but but but ...
I agree the start of the issue was that the images were posted at all and it is totally right that you are taking action to tighten controls on this and prevent it from happening. Thank you for taking these steps.

However once the images were posted (and continuing to be posted over a period of hours), the issue WAS that the Nightwatch were trying to deal with it without adequate tools or training ( eg asking posters to put a link to CSA abuse images in the Nightwatch thread - obviously illegal to do but totally understandable given the limited range of options open to them.

If this happened during the day the images would have been zapped far more quickly and fewer MNetters, including NW volunteers would have been exposed to them. Police could have been notified more quickly and executive decisions like suspending the ability to post pictures could also have been taken and implemented more quickly too.

You seem to be saying that the use of Nightwatch volunteers is irrelevant and this feels very disingenuous. Why aren't you considering paid staff with executive decision making skills and full training being on call through the night? ( Or if you are, why are you not telling us?)

After the awful incident where Russell Brand went rogue and made awful phonecalls on air on Radio 2 (the content was awful but arguably not as terrible as CSA) the BBC decided that a senior producer had to be on duty at all times just in case someone else did something as awful and so that they could immediately intervene/take programmes off air/apologise.

I know that MN is small in reach and size compared with the BBC but can you really not afford to provide some kind of fairly senior paid supervision overnight?

If you are telling is that your filters are enough to totally ensure that nothing really nasty/triggering of this or other ilk can never ever get through, then you really do need to address the Nightwatch issue also.

Precisely.

Those who viewed the images have been seriously affected. It is not ridiculous to want to know that MN are doing everything they can to ensure this doesn’t happen again, especially considering there have been prior problems and they were aware that there were potential issues ongoing. It’s mad to say we should all just sit quietly.

It was CSA images for fucks sakes. It’s utterly despicable that it was allowed to happen. People should be loud as fuck about this.

I was around when the night watch were brought in. People were asked if their powers were enough. Some disagreed but overall people were happy. I knew they were there, that they were volunteers. As did those of us who have been here for eons. Im assuming the volunteers have been perfectly happy until now as well.

I've said for years that Mumsnet needs moderators. Self moderation in this day and age probably isn't worth it.

Absolutely not blood. People are asking for a proper paid supervision of the site overnight. I don't think this is unreasonable.

@gamerchick please reconsider your use of the word "shenanigans" in relation to the publication of serious child abuse images. Also the reason this doesn't happen on other sites is that they have filters. Moderators should only see this kind of thing very rarely.

Yes I agree that someone Senior needs to be contactable at all times. That's something we're absolutely ensuring is the case going forward.

I didn't click on a link. They were just there, no link!