Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again.

As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow.

It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

I completely agree with this post by @SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius; it couldn't have been expressed more clearly or rationally. I can't see there can be any possible counter-argument to what she has said so eloquently.

Adding my voice to those who are commenting on out of hours moderation.

You have NEVER made it clear to users what the appropriate actions to take are outside of office hours. We are continually told to use the report function to raise any concerns, but you are not at all transparent with users that this is not monitored during certain hours.
Are there set hours? Is there always a NW volunteer online, like a schedule, or is it just if a NW happens to be using the site at the time?

Maybe you could signpost towards support for those who inadvertently viewed the illegal and disturbing material that was hosted on your website? This can include users, unpaid moderators and paid staff, many of whom will have been forced into viewing it in order to escalate the issue.

What is the escalation process for reports of this nature? Do the NW have the means to contact a paid member of staff with more administrative powers at any point 24/7?

Yes, could you not send out a message to all users about these issues? Not everyone will see these threads and know how to seek assistance should the need arise.

Thank you for the update MNHQ🙏🏻

Another voice adding support to this post.

There have been issues with both moderation and the IT infrastructure for years. I admit to being very sceptical that any material change will come out of this, I would very much like to be wrong about that.

It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible.

I thought this too, just from reading and with no behind the scenes information. I don’t like the tone of, “Will you confirm that you will be taking X action as of three weeks ago?” or “Do you agree until MNHQ have removed all despicable images from the internet, MN should be closed down indefinitely?”.

This isn't necessarily correct.

I have been provided with support from my employer following an incident at my place of work which didn't amount to an admittance of liability.

You won't find a bigger critic than me of how this has been handled, but we have to be reasonable. How could they possibly have advertised, interviewed, hired, trained and started night shift moderators in less than 48 hours?

That needs to be done ASAP, obviously. My most pressing question at the moment is what help is being extended to the volunteers who had to deal with the incident.

For me, the issue that needs addressed is moderation, and that message doesn't address the lack of moderation at night or the lack of transparency as to how to report issues at night or even what hours there is no paid moderators working.

Thanks for the update.
Best wishes to all involved in this horrible situation.
Would be good to see something outside of Site Stuff regarding nighttime communication once a plan has been made.

I would like to know how they are assessing 'bad actors'.

I'm sorry you got banned for expressing an opinion!

First time I'm commenting on this.

I want to add to the questions re the 'nightwatch'. No assurances have been given that this is going to be updated and made fit for purpose. I had no idea that the report function does work overnight, as many others have stated. This is not good enough. Use the wealth of the site to pay for moderation 24/7.

It’s also ironic that genuine Mumsnet users can get a temporary ban for doubting threads that stretches credibility, yet a creepy paedophile can post with relative impunity overnight.

Also- there have been images of people posting genitalia images under the guise of “ Is this XYZ”?

Even GP surgeries say not to post such images.
No genitalia should be posted at all, in my opinion.

Al does need to be used to vet images- not even paid mods need to see the perverse illegal images that certain people post here.

I too have seen images - thankfully not CSA- that have been posted by the basement dweller types, and these are at night.

Night mods definitely need payment- It’s not a charity site after all.

Surely that counts as bad faith. Or are MN only concerned with critical posts?

Thank you for the update. I agree that something needs to change with regards to the Night Watch and that this has been the case for many years. You have to be a pretty experienced user to know that a) reporting doesn’t work overnight and b) you have to post on the Night Watch forum if something comes up that needs urgent attention. Another issue with having to post on the Night Watch forum is that it is not anonymous and you are then opening yourself up as a target for whatever is going on.

MN needs moderators who have access to the proper reports overnight, If people are willing to do that for free, then that’s on them but it has to be a consistent presence on the official reporting system. Bad faith actors know that MN is vulnerable overnight and regularly take advantage of that even if it is just to post stupid threads. That this dreadful event happened is a direct consequence of that security flaw that has been discussed but not changed many times over the years.

how dare you suggest that people who have commented on this situation are trolls just wanting to stir up trouble.

People wouldn’t have been commenting on it at all if the situation hadn’t happened in the first place due to your inadequate moderation.

Hear hear 👏

There have been plenty of people expressing opinions on this issue that haven't been banned though so what that PP said doesn't match reality.

Why has that post been deleted now??

This is getting laughable now MN

Yes, I totally get that. For staff, that is one thing. An employer has a basic duty of care after all. It would be quite different to offering support to the users of this site, though, so I'd imagine that's why it hasn't been offered (especially as some users were talking about suing and going to the press, etc)

Using volunteer mods is common on chat sites, especially quieter ones which MN is out of hours as most users are in the UK/Europe.

It can be helpful for the volunteers, especially if they are trying to rejoin the workforce or get into media/web dev as a career, in terms of work experience and references however, there should be a system in place with someone paid on call who the volunteers can reach out in an emergency like this one and they should have the ability to suspend posters and view reports.

Just as a point of interest here's a link to the kickoff of NightWatch:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_night_watch/2015451-Night-Watch-begins-this-evening

These are usually smaller sites that don't make millions in profit though. I think if you're making as much money as MN is, you can afford to pay for overnight support, especially since no one volunteering should have to deal with things like CSA images.

Agree...as MN is well-known for being one of the only forums that supports discussion of certain women's issues, and attracts a lot of hate for this reason, it is suspicious

Thank you for the update.

What’s this all about? Seems like I missed something