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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MNHQ

Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

487 replies

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 12:13

Hi all,
There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again.

As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow.

It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

OP posts:
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gamerchick · 04/02/2025 14:54

crowgift · 04/02/2025 14:52

@gamerchick please reconsider your use of the word "shenanigans" in relation to the publication of serious child abuse images. Also the reason this doesn't happen on other sites is that they have filters. Moderators should only see this kind of thing very rarely.

Edited

I'm not talking about the images. Hmm

Are you saying that those who posted the onslaught all day yesterday deliberately to try and get mumsnet closed down were in cahoots with the person who posted them like?

kittensinthekitchen · 04/02/2025 14:55

kittensinthekitchen · 04/02/2025 14:42

So is there a moderator/admin scheduled to be 'working' 24/7? Or is it a "if you see something when you happen to be browsing, please deal with it?
Again, how are you communicating to ALL users about the night watch set up?

And yet still no signposting to resources to support those affected by this. You don't actually really care do you? Other than how it might affect the business?

Have you had to view the images posted @JustineMumsnet ?

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@JustineMumsnet

ErrolTheDragon · 04/02/2025 14:55

My questions is why they want to rely on “tools” rather than employing people to keep a proper watch

It's not an either/or.
There needs to be pre-filtering so even the mods don't need to be exposed to CSA.

The NW mechanism as it stands is evidently not fit for purpose, for various of the reasons already discussed.

BarbaraHoward · 04/02/2025 14:55

gamerchick · 04/02/2025 14:42

So blood in other words?

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Personally I'd settle for lessons learned. If a solution isn't enough at 10am London time, then it isn't suitable any other time either. A website this big needs /to be consistently moderated 24/7/365.

Locutus2000 · 04/02/2025 14:55

Even before this happened moderation has seemed light recently, in line with the changes made by Meta and X.

Maybe I am imagining it but there have been a lot of threads which would have been taken down a few months ago. Maybe it is fewer users reporting.

No particular opinion on the matter but it feels a bit like the trolls are winning at the minute.

Twaddlepip · 04/02/2025 14:56

TheWeeDonkeyFella · 04/02/2025 13:18

I reported a post unbelievably playing down csa images, and I expect many others did too, and yet it's still up. 🤷‍♀️

I don’t know what you guys think, but MNHQ seem woefully ill-prepared to deal with this and vastly out of their depth. This has been horrific and very badly handled.

kittensinthekitchen · 04/02/2025 14:57

gamerchick · 04/02/2025 14:38

Exactly. It was pretty obvious there were shenanigans.

Still people want blood. It's being dealt with. Some people need to take a breath and log out for a bit for their own sakes.

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Yes ladies, sit down, behave, shut up and #BeKind 🙄

BarbaraHoward · 04/02/2025 14:57

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 14:54

Yes I agree that someone Senior needs to be contactable at all times. That's something we're absolutely ensuring is the case going forward.

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That's something at least.

heyhopotato · 04/02/2025 14:58

Moderators should be paid, you can't rely on volunteers, plus no one should be working for free.

In other communities where moderators work for "free" there is an advantage for them working of some type (e.g. paid membership to something) or it's their own group on someone else's platform.

MaMisled · 04/02/2025 14:58

wrongthinker · 04/02/2025 13:59

Someone mentioned on the other thread that playing tetris can help. Sounds nuts but there's some solid research backing it up. Can't hurt, anyway. Hope you're okay.

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Thankyou so much for that helpful suggestion. It's an old favourite of mine and I can absolutely see it helping. I'm going to install it right now.

ArticWillow · 04/02/2025 14:59

Locutus2000 · 04/02/2025 14:55

Even before this happened moderation has seemed light recently, in line with the changes made by Meta and X.

Maybe I am imagining it but there have been a lot of threads which would have been taken down a few months ago. Maybe it is fewer users reporting.

No particular opinion on the matter but it feels a bit like the trolls are winning at the minute.

Edited

I agree, to many trolls and AI generated threads on this site.

I think an overhaul of procedures is long overdue.

MariaThomasFangs · 04/02/2025 14:59

MaMisled · 04/02/2025 14:58

Thankyou so much for that helpful suggestion. It's an old favourite of mine and I can absolutely see it helping. I'm going to install it right now.

Show quote history

Yes, one of the few good things to come out of this is I've learned about the Tertris/PTSD connection, and I'm going to get back into playing it!

BarbaraHoward · 04/02/2025 15:00

Locutus2000 · 04/02/2025 14:55

Even before this happened moderation has seemed light recently, in line with the changes made by Meta and X.

Maybe I am imagining it but there have been a lot of threads which would have been taken down a few months ago. Maybe it is fewer users reporting.

No particular opinion on the matter but it feels a bit like the trolls are winning at the minute.

Edited

Yes I had a protracted conversation with the mods about this - a particular term I've been reporting for years is no longer deleted. The party line is that that is no change in policy. When I sent a list of 40+ report numbers from my inbox history that wasn't acknowledged.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 15:00

FloofyKat · 04/02/2025 14:46

I’m shocked to learn that using the ‘report’ button only works during office hours. Unacceptable, I believe. MN has enough £££ and longevity of presence to be more aware of the risks and take appropriate steps to make sure this gaping chasm is addressed.

As said upthread the Report button works 24-7

"it’s always worth reporting posts, no matter the time of day. We have various automated moderation controls in place that operate outside of business hours, and we are actively working to strengthen these further. While we won’t go into detail for security reasons, we want to reassure you that reports do play a role in flagging issues at any time."

OP posts:
IncaDove · 04/02/2025 15:01

Another issue that needs to be addressed is the fact that lots of people did not know that they should report via the night watch section rather than using the report button. This needs to be made much clearer so that if there are any future events they can be delt with much quicker.

Edit: Not sure if my post is relevant now as crossed post with Justine

WorriedRelative · 04/02/2025 15:01

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 14:20

We understand the concern around moderation overnight, and we want to clarify a few things.

First, it’s always worth reporting posts, no matter the time of day. We have a number of automated moderation controls in place that operate overnight, and we are actively working to strengthen these further. While we won’t go into detail because we don't want to give troublemakers intel on how to avoid detection, we want to reassure you that reports are an effective way of flagging issues at any time of day or night.

NightWatchers are long-standing, experienced Mumsnet users who live in different timezones and who very kindly have offered to help keep an eye on things overnight. They do have some admin tools to manage situations (they can hide posts and threads and suspend users) and we are looking at ways in which we can augment these tools, including improving alerts when a thread is being widely reported.

It’s worth noting that many large platforms rely almost entirely on volunteer moderators.

The issue on Sunday night wasn’t night watch controls or moderation - it was that these images could be posted at all. Even if this had happened during the day, they still would have appeared on the site. That’s why our focus is on preventing this kind of content from being uploaded in the first place.

We know this has been a distressing situation, and I promise we’re working hard to ensure it doesn’t happen again. Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to share feedback - we do take it on board, and we appreciate it.

Oh stop being a cheapskate and ensure there is always a paid professional available.

Volunteer moderators are fine to deal with low level stuff and to provide additional eyes and ears but it is unreasonable to expect them to be the only moderators available on a site like this. By relying upon volunteers you can't guarantee that there is 24/7 moderation, it was only luck that people were available to deal with this incident.

You should consider your duty of care to your users AND your volunteers. You are putting them at risk and yourself at risk.

It is essential that there is always someone with full access and decision making capabilities on duty.

tothelefttotheleft · 04/02/2025 15:03

woodenbatandball · 04/02/2025 13:03

Thank you. I appreciate this response. I hope my thread doesn't mean I'm a bad faith actor. I genuinely wanted some clarity and communication on the situation. This post has addressed this for me. Thank you.

How has this post addressed anything for you? It really doesn't say much.

gamerchick · 04/02/2025 15:03

BarbaraHoward · 04/02/2025 14:55

Personally I'd settle for lessons learned. If a solution isn't enough at 10am London time, then it isn't suitable any other time either. A website this big needs /to be consistently moderated 24/7/365.

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I agree. I also believe that there are things happening at the backend to stop it happening again.

EducatingArti · 04/02/2025 15:03

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 14:54

Yes I agree that someone Senior needs to be contactable at all times. That's something we're absolutely ensuring is the case going forward.

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Thank you @JustineMumsnet for filling us in on this. This feels like an excellent step in the right direction and will hopefully mean problems can be dealt with faster.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/02/2025 15:04

Oh stop being a cheapskate and ensure there is always a paid professional available.

One of Justine's later posts says they're going to make sure there's always someone senior available.

MariaThomasFangs · 04/02/2025 15:05

ErrolTheDragon · 04/02/2025 15:04

Oh stop being a cheapskate and ensure there is always a paid professional available.

One of Justine's later posts says they're going to make sure there's always someone senior available.

She didn't say it would be a paid mod though? If it's a matter of someone being on call, I'm not sure that's good enough. I could be wrong though, some clarification on this point would be good?

Yabadabadooooo · 04/02/2025 15:06

Did you not suspend new registrations?

crowgift · 04/02/2025 15:06

@JustineMumsnet why were there no filters in place? Moderators would be exposed to this kind of illegal material very rarely if filters are in place (and see the safeguards and procedures that the Internet Watch Foundation has for their own staff for exposure to images of child sexual abuse).

tothelefttotheleft · 04/02/2025 15:13

JustineMumsnet
Yes I agree that someone Senior needs to be contactable at all times. That's something we're absolutely ensuring is the case going forward.

I'm amazed that this hasn't been in place before. It still wouldn't be enough. Just contactable? Not actually working at night?

Also if the report button did work as you say why were images up for hours?

EducatingArti · 04/02/2025 15:15

Having someone senior "on call" who can take rapid actions is a good first step but I'm not convinced it is sufficient.

It is worth noting that when the BBC introduced senior producer monitoring after the Russell Brand debacle, they required the on-call producer to be on hand in the building and listening to output if anything live was being broadcast.

I also think a "next step" will be found to be needed which includes some kinds of paid moderation/overview as well as a senior person being on call. However I understand that it may take time to get to this up and running and having a senior person with executive making powers and abilities (it is no use someone having the power to suspend picture uploads if there is no- one with the technical knowledge to enact the decision available) is a great first step.