TDWP and recent goings-on

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We thought it would be useful to explain our understanding of what occurred last week between Zombie, Footsteps/TDWP, Rhubarb etc to try to clear up any misunderstandings.

When the situation started to develop last week, we absolutely did not know that Footsteps was TDWP. We unearthed something to suggest that she was near midnight on the night that everything was kicking off. At that point, one MNer was waiting in a public place to meet up with her, and we had been told by Zombie and by Nom that the police were aware of the rendezvous details and were standing by to help if anything went wrong.

We could see from some PMs flying around that posters were saying that the crime reference number checked out, and that the refuge had confirmed they had a space for her, so at this point we thought the best course was to keep channels of communication open. So we didn't ban Footsteps again at that point, despite having realised who she was. We did re-ban her once things had settled down and we had been told she was in a safe place. Given past history, TDWP is not a poster we would consider allowing back to Mumsnet permanently.

At various points throughout the evening we were in phone or text contact with Zombie and with Rhubarb, mostly trying to establish (as far as we could) what was going on and whether people were behaving safely. FWIW, we thought at the time - and still do - that it was a hugely risky thing to do, and not something we would advise or encourage. We would never recommend that any MNer goes into a situation like this, particularly not on her own. As most of you will know, we remind posters regularly that not everyone on the internet is who and what they say they are. We're pulling together some content on internet safety for adults and hope to publish that soon.

We asked Rhubarb at the time (before we had conclusive evidence about Footsteps's identity) whether she thought the person Zombie was meeting was a previously banned poster, and she said that she had no reason to think it was.

Pretty much everything else took place off-board and via channels that we have no access to - so beyond this account we aren't able to say with certainty what has gone on.

"The quiche had started organising a meet up"

I have never been so confused in my life.

Quiche as in chatty group.

I am not sure that helps Absy.

Latecomer to thread.

Just to go back to something that MaryZ said last night about cryptic messages and someone "in the know" saying that Zombie wasn't answering her phone... it was me who said the Zombie wasn't answering.

I wasn't posting that to be cryptic or alarmist. I was just as worried and confused by it as everyone else and not remotely in the know. I did state when I posted that that I wasn't telling you all this to panic everyone. I was just super worried about Zombie.

There was a thread last week (nice sensible thread on the whole with good points being made) debating whether trolls or troll hunters were worse. I argued then that troll hunters were - on that thread i was coming round to maybe trolls were but these recent threads have reinforced my view that troll hunting is more damaging to MN than trolls.

The fact that "foots" turned out to be a well known troll says nothing about the situation she was actually in. We don't know how genuine that was. what zombie did may have been a selfless act of kindness or a very stupid and dangerous act - or both.

Some people on MN seem a bit over invested in being able to say "see, I told you so" "I felt it in my waters that this was dodgy" etc. the bullying on these recent threads has certainly changed my view of some posters (and yes I do think it has been bullying of people who simply tried to help someone).

If you think someone might be a troll or sock puppet then REPORT it, or PM people - don't start suggesting it on thread, nothing more likely to turn any thread nasty IMO.

Problem with that catsrus, is that people WERE reporting and WERE PMing but nothing was happening. People were still being sucked in, plans being made and support (and very sad and personal stories) being given on the threads.

Not until people that KNEW (not thought, not assumed - those who had been bitten before and recognised the style) started posting on the thread, or 'troll hunting' did other people start backing off.

But even then, people that didn't KNOW, people that weren't around before or weren't hurt by the mastertrolls previous incarnations were telling the 'troll hunters' that they were wrong, to back off, reporting them to MNHQ and getting their warnings deleted.

The thread should have been deleted or locked then. Maybe if it had been we wouldn't have seen all the shit kicking off since.

Maybe that is why people are 'told you so'-ing now (although I haven't seen it). Regulars/Oldies/Royalty (however the latest sneer is said) REMEMBER past events and I wish people would take notice of them when it is something this important.

Now all that is left from this latest debacle is bad feelings and hurt. But it could have been much worse.

Of course it was a nice sensible thread. It was mine

Catsrus in this case, if TDWP was in genuine need and NOT trolling. Why has she revisited the site repeatedly since she was delivered there each time using a different alias?

Because that isn't asking for a hand hold, it's trolling.

There was some poor behaviour around that night, but you can't excuse the poor behaviour being born out of good intent on one side of the arguement, if you don't grant the same excuse to the other.

Thankfully Mnet is mostly comprised of intelligent, thoughtful well meaning women .... Sometimes when we're get up about an issue we need a gentle reminded that we are, and then start acting like it again.

No ones opinions or feelings of the events last week changed in the other now full thread. But they decided to pack in going in circles and be kind to each other.

Oddly enough once that happened a shiny brand spanking "new" poster arrived to try and start the whole furore over again.

This time they were roundly ignored. By parties in both sides of the disagreement.

Whatever our thoughts are on the help granted. A confirmed PBP/Troll engineered and manipulated a situation where report and ignore was nigh on impossible. That says a lot more about them then any of the posters who reacted.

How can you possibly conclude that troll hunting is worse after that debacle, Catsrus?
To me it proved the exact opposite, how a troll can manipulate a whole thread and have nice but naive posters driving through the night to what was a potentially dangerous situation.
Many long term posters smelled TDWP on that thread, and they were proved correct as MN confirmed.
I'd rather trust those that have been here for years than reporting. MNHQ do their best but there is only so much they can do with searching IP addresses and whatever else they can do.
One computer savvy troll can get through this barrier, which is why I'd much rather trust the instincts of people that have been here for years.
Unlike the ever changeable staff at MNHQ, they have been chatting to people on this site for years, and have got to know the style and language of many posters.
They are nearly always right, and as I've only been here for 3 years, I'm always grateful for the warnings.

.

Oh my. That's a feast for the eyes.

Who he?

David boreanz (sp?) exit him off Buffy and bones.

Oh but there are days when I just cant decide...

Thanks

still none the wiser

The answer is Spike, LtEve. Every day. And twice on Sundays.

Oh, now, this is disturbing...

I'm not sure MNHQ had that in mind when they added the picture feature!

Or maybe they did

Trust YOU Custy!

:)

It's all very well saying to trust the regulars - but I'm guessing most of us won't have a handy list of who is a regular and who isnt! People name change, sometimes with very subtle differences between names - there is probably nothing stopping anyone calling themselves LadyBeegleEyes and passing themselves off as a "known" poster.

As a thought experiment - what if people had played by the site rules and not called troll on the threads in question. What if the regulars, instead of posting and casting doubts had simply said "this doesn't seem to be a sensible thing to do and I hope everyone is ok" ? The people involved may or may not have ended up feeling a bit but they would not have felt bullied and attacked.

Nothing any of you sleuths did on the thread has had a positive outcome has it? The safety issue could still have been raised and dealt with but in an adult and supportive way.

To me this is a perfect illustration of why MN bans troll hunting - its toxic.

Can i just say - without dragging things up again - that the banner at the top of my page is an advert for cyber safety! something like you would recommend your teenagers/preteens to read. Co-incidence?

No, trolls are toxic. Only one person created this ill feeling and that was the troll in question.
Can't believe how you can blame anybody else. I like to be warned on threads I'm on if someone is a recognisable troll, reporting does not work and more and more people get reeled in.

MadIsTheNewNormal - quiche is a MN misspelling of clique - a poster misspelled clique as quiche, and it just caught on.

Catsrus you are wrong, if all the people who were sure it was TDWP or even just another troll etc hadn't posted FAR more people would have been sucked in and this would have gone down as 'A wonderful thing' when it is NOT.

Would I be right in guessing that you weren't around when TDWP caused massive massive problems (or any of the other nasty nasty trolls)?

Trolls that post about inane things are just annoying, but trolls who deliberately build up threads like this are quite another league and everyone needs to help everyone else avoid being sucked into it - no matter how that is done, on thread or off.