Why don't more of us women 'demand' marriage from our 'man'?

[faraday]

Should I say Flame Alert! Stand well Clear! Touch Paper Lit!

But seriously, as an older person (46!!) it still- well, surprises me how many of us perhaps talk ourselves around in knots into believing the actual commitment of marriage isn't for us but it's actually a smoke screen for fear that if we DEMAND our 'DP' marries us he may run away?

What do we think?

I think you should don your flak jacket and tin hat

oh, and since when has 46 been an "older person" ??

you sound like my farking mother who describes herself as "elderly" (she is 65)

I genuinely, honestly, really do not want to get married.

This is not a 'smokescreen' for anything.

I don't tend to demand things of my partner anyway - if one of us wants something we discuss it. I don't expect him to demand things of me either, in fact I'd be hopping bloody mad if he tried.

Blimey!

Um, in my case, I just don't want to demand anything. I'd rather we were married because we both wanted to be... and more importantly now with our children I just want to make sure we're all happy and looked after. I don't think marraige would change that, tbh. But would happily marry him if he asked probably.

What surprises me is how many women are still desperate for men to marry them, when marriage is far more for men's benefit than for women's, now that women have economic autonomy rather than being property.
And what I find really depressing is the kind of relationship where the man holds the idea of PROPOSING over the woman's head like a doggy treat. Any woman who puts up with that needs a kick in the fanjo - if you want to marry a man, ask him yourself: if he says no at least you know where you're at.

Oh yes bleeeeeurgh to the whole thing where women moon about hoping he'll pop the question.

And whats with women who order him into arrange the proposal and choose the bloody ring? Thats just odd.

AAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGH at SGB's doggy treat!!!

I'm not married and I can't think of any reason to get married, except the lovely dress and that would be just a bit daft...

So it's bad if SHE asks- and bad if she waits to BE asks. Wot?

No, it was genuine Q: It does occur to me from time to time that I DO wonder how many of the strident 'I SO don't want to be married and I'd absolutely say NO IF I were asked' crowd I know REALLY mean it? Especially considering how many were frankly amazed when, in a truly casual discussion that broke out, the married women to a woman in the group acceded that BEING married had improved their social standing. Wrong? Yes, of course. True? Ditto.

No, Faraday, it's not bad to ask a man to marry you - as long as you're prepared to take no for an answer of course.
Demanding a man propose is twatty, though, and is setting yourself up for an unhealthy future of having to be grateful that he married you...

Well I've been asked and said no, partly because P is a twat and partly because when I'm earning a fat wage I won't be wanting to give his lazy ass anything when we divorce.

Being married improves your social standing? what? not since the 1950's.

Your friends must be terribly bourgeois if they really think that being married has 'improved their social standing'.

Um, well, we never did the whole proposal nonsense.
We loved each other and like the idea of marriage (for us) so we got married. There was no fannying about waiting to be asked/asking and wondering. It was something we discussed from early on.

Hmmmm.

Having seen a friend go through terrible long drawn-out legal wranglings over the break up of a 25 year partnership (with kids), involving access, house sales, etc - all of which would have been more clear cut had they been married -

I do agree that being married is better than not, for parents at least. In the absence of any other formal arrangement between couples.

faraday - don't couples really always in reality negotiate for quite a long time and decide to get married as a joint decision?

Is it really true anymore that the man just 'pops the question'? I did ask DW if she would marry me but she knew very well I was going to ask and I knew she would say yes because we had talked a lot about our future and what we each wanted. The only thing she didn't know was the precise moment when I would ask.

Agree with SGB if a woman or man wants to get married why not just talk about it?

AND

Congratulations. You are the first person to have ever suggest I am old. I am 46 now!

nickytwotimes - x posted. Yes thats the way we did it. Very civilised.

Ooooo I am 46 too ABD (for a few months yet).
So many of us old gimmers all on one thread!

I don't understand.

Why would a woman want some bloke to marry her if he doesn't want to? Isn't it supposed to be a mutual thing?

Help me to understand, someone, please!

I'm going to start a thread called "When will women realize that marriage is an outdated patriarchal institution that they should avoid like the plague?"

Marriage offers the best protection to women in the event of a break up.

If you have both names on the mortgage or tenancy agreement and properly written up wills and a astatement of parental responsibility for any child born before 2000 9 I think) then the only thing marriage gives you is the right to widow's benefit.

I think if I had reached the grand age of 46 and not tried marriage, I would not bother, admit it your not prepared to deal with any sort of compromise which is what being married involves (like it or not)

Speaking with my divorce lawyer hat on, I would never have had kids without getting married first. Most women with children earn much less than their partners, can't contribute so much to their pensions, can't get such big mortgages etc etc.

I spend half my time breaking the news to people who think they're common law wives that actually, they're well and truly f*d financially when they're traded in for another model

Mintyy - yes only a few months left for me too.

Interesting use of the word 'gimmer' by the way. Farmers (in Yorkshire) use that word to describe a ewe too old to bear young. The male equivalent phrase 'owd tup' covers us blokes of a certain age. Might need to put those in the MN dictionary.