Why don't more of us women 'demand' marriage from our 'man'?

[faraday]

Should I say Flame Alert! Stand well Clear! Touch Paper Lit!

But seriously, as an older person (46!!) it still- well, surprises me how many of us perhaps talk ourselves around in knots into believing the actual commitment of marriage isn't for us but it's actually a smoke screen for fear that if we DEMAND our 'DP' marries us he may run away?

What do we think?

Seeker, what about spousal maintenance, a share of the man's pension, the fact that a married woman with children will almost always get much more than half the equity in the house??

Sadly, many women do not have those things Seeker.

ABD - I HAVE to know. Tell me the month of your birthday ...

I turned 46 last week. I am still fending off Mr Inferior's repeated proposals of marriage with a sharp stick. Pointless bloody institution.

WRT to the choosing the ring question - when my partner and I got engaged we saw it as the first of many decisions we'd be making together in our future married life. A colleague of mine had a 'romantic' proposal where he contacted her line manager, booked her a day off work and sent her a series of messages to lead her to the hotel where he proposed, with champagne on ice. I would have been so annoyed at the mysteriousness, and at my work knowing before me, that I would probably have refused out of sheer bloody-mindedness.

September

Eeek. Mine too.

PMSL at 'improved social standing'. I can't say that the various middle-aged unmarried mothers at the school gates are treated any less Respectfully than the married gels.

Is this thread for real?

Demand someone to marry you? Weird.

I think a lot of people, both men and women are perfectly and sincerely happy not being married.

I earn twice what my DP does, my name is on the mortgage, our mortgage is covered in the event of one of our deaths, he has full parental rights and responsibilities.

So I can not see what additional protection marriage would bring to anyone.

motherinferior - how many times?

Feel a bit sorry for him. You could surprise him and say yes one day soon.

Well, the Big Proposal was back a couple of years ago ('you want me to do whaaaaaat?') but the offer still stands, apparently.

I've put him off by saying we have to have Stand by Your Man at the wedding. The Lyle Lovett cover version.

Get the paperwork right and marriage is completely irrelevant.

mrsb, have you both made a will ?

mrsB- if you were married and then divorced, he ( being the one earning less) would be able to claim a) maintenance and b) possibly a share in your pension as part of a settlement and division of assets. As it stands, he would not be able to claim anything from you.

Am very against the idea of marriage being a 'demand'. I went to graduate school with a weird bunch of women, one of whom gave her DP an ultimatum of 'produce a ring and propose by Christmas, or it's over'. Disgusting.

Two more of them were planning their wedding despite not having partners. And apparently I was a total bitch for questioning this!

My brother is marrying a girl just like this...he has been badgered every step of the way. I don't expect it to last.

I'm not against marriage (am on marriage number 2 myself)....but it seems very wrong for it to be a 'demand'. My first was out of necessity--no way to be together without it (different countries and no other visa options open). Current marriage is something we both wanted, discussed, and were happy to do. I'd never feel secure if I had to 'demand' or badger someone into making a commitment to me.

MrsB- again- in my situation as 25 yrs as a p/t worker, mum and p/t housekeeper, I would be able to claim all of the above- without marriage- nothing.

Seeker - That's not true. If you break up form your unmarried partner, it is v likely that you will both change your wills. ANd althouth you may co-own your property as joint tenants currently, it is entirely possible to serve notice of severance on a joint tenancy for any property you hold jointly, so that you will become tenants in common, meaning your portion of the property is held in your estate and his is held in his estate. Also if you are unmarried, you have no right to a pension sharing order or any of his property or other investments. It is especially important if you are a SAHM as you will likely have neglected your own pension contributions.

Also if one of you dies, you cannot pass your property free of inheritance tax by utilising the spousal exemption. So any estate over the IHT limit (i think it's currently about £300,000) would incur a 40% IHT charge.

Having said all that I remain unmarried.

'demand' is definately the wrong word. However if it is important to one person in the partnership it should be discussed.

My friend (male ironically) told his partner that he would not father a child with her unless they got married.

She didn't really want to get married but wanted to have children with him so agreed to do it (with lots of provisos about no big wedding etc.)

I guess that could be termed a 'demand' but knowing them both well i'd say it was more of a compromise agreement, but it's a fine line

I agree with mumblechum, knowing something of family law I would not have children or put myself in a weaker financial position (going part time/becoming a SAHM) etc without being married. I know that is not a romantic view and it is not WHY I married but unfortunately the reality is that many relationships do break up and the financially weaker party (usually the woman) will be in a much weaker position if unmarried. FWIW I don't know of anyone working in family law who cohabits, they are all married/civil partnered or not in a live-in relationship.

Seeker - marriage is not irrelevant for the reasons that mumblechum has given above, though you are quite right that the things you mention are important.

I'm afraid that I agree very much with Mumblechum.

If both partners are working and have all properties on both names, etc. fantastic... but if you have put your career in the backburner to raise the family, you and your children may be affected badly if the partnership breaks up.

no we haven't made wills AnyFucker- I know we should.

I have to say that I wouldn't be comfortable with being financially dependant on a man whether married or not and I wouldn't do it but I can see why a SAHM would need the protection of marriage though.

Oh there are some legal benefits if you have children and a mortgage, to be sure.
But lots of people remain fundamentally uncomfortable with something that has been, for most of its history, about women being men's property. It is fewer than 20 years ago, BTW, that married women regained the right to say No to sex with their husbands: prior to that, being married meant he could fuck you whenever he wanted to, no matter what you thought about it.