Why some women are attracted to difficult men/players in relationships

[OMGDidYouSayThat]

Just a thread to explore the Psychology behind why women love a bastard...

Is it excitement because of the twists and turns?
Is it because it's a project to fix?
Is it because others are attracted to them?

Interested to hear everyone's views on the subject as i can't work out why someone would go into a relationship with someone they knew was going to be a nightmare to handle...

I would say you don’t always know they’re going to be difficult to handle, and by the time you get into a committed relationship there’s a bond that can be hard to break. Think drugs - chasing the highs, promising yourself you won’t put up with the bad behaviour next time, sunk costs - especially where children are involved, it can be hard to envision a life without someone who takes up so much of your mental and emotional energy.

There’s probably an element of relational styles, I’ve always been a people pleaser and caretaker so when I meet a fixer-upper it feels like they need me. I can put my time and love into someone and help them become a better version of themselves.

Obviously that doesn’t work. They need to do it for themselves, but when you can see the wounded child inside them and understand what drives their bad behaviour you end up being more forgiving than someone who sees the surface behaviour without looking for the damage that precedes it.

Most of the bastards I’ve met can be charming and engaging, they love bomb, they set up an “us against the world” dynamic where you feel on top of the world when you’re with them. When it inevitably comes crashing down you’re so desperate to recreate the highs that you’ll do anything to get back up there, believing that if you just did/didn’t do this one thing, that the crash wouldn’t happen again. That’s just my experience of it.

That is a valid point, you don't always know, and i guess what's advertised initially isn't necessarily what you're going to get and i'm guessing love bombing is rife.

To put a spin on things, what if you know what they are like before getting with them?

This feels like it belongs on Reddit, usually posted by the type of man who thinks he's a 'nice guy', but who actually isn't.

You're making a blanket statement, as if it's a total given, that women (not just some women mind you), but women in general love a 'bastard'.

If you read the experiences of lots of women, you'll see that many who ended up in relationships with awful men didn't think he was a bastard at the beginning - this was something he revealed about himself over time when he thought he had some power over her, when he thought she was now under his thumb.

Disregarding being set a bad example growing up, mistaking neglect or abuse for loving behaviour by shitty fathers (extremely commonplace), or wasting their misplaced nurturing or maternal instinct on a dangerous renovation project, some women are attracted to unpleasant men because they see kindness as weakness, because not all women are nice. Some women are aggressive, very status driven or look for weakness in others to exploit, and when they're looking for a partner, they don't necessarily look for those qualities in their own male partner, although some do. They look for someone they'll respect, and that happens to be someone with the same unpleasant qualities as themselves.

Some also feel uncomfortable with kindness or loving behaviour because they feel it's somehow fake, or it's unfamiliar to them due to the environment they grew up in. They don't like feeling emotionally vulnerable, so it might be more attractive to them to go for nasty guy than risk loving someone and then be terribly disappointed or face strong abandonment feelings if the relationship doesn't work out.

This is an extremely good point i hadn't even considered

"They look for someone they'll respect, and that happens to be someone with the same unpleasant qualities as themselves"

and just to set the record straight i'm not here as someone who is on the receiving end of a partner who loves a bastard. Just a general question.

Good question as a quiet shy bloke I’ve always wondered why do all the girls go for the bad guy when they know it will end in tears do they think they will be better protected and cared for sorry once a twat always a twat I know my dad was one

Most of them don’t start out like that or we’d all run a mile! It’s when you’re hooked and the mask slips that they gradually start to show the real them.
I know from my own reflections that I made far too many excuses for what I saw as poor MH, and I felt it was my responsibility as a good partner to provide support. When in reality it was just crappy and pretty selfish behaviour on his part with no thought for my feelings, needs or views. I left. Others don’t and keep supporting men who have no regard for anyone but themselves.

My dad wasn't a particularly good role model either but i decided from a young age that i wasn't going to be like that, not that it's done me any favours really but at least i can rest easy knowing i haven't gone around causing hurt. Let's see what comes from this thread as it's an age old question.

So far @SnowflakeSmasher86 & @EarthSight have already mentioned some really valid points...

So this is the love bombing thing again, basically game playing...

I feel the same as you OP. I've got no interest in fixing anyone and I don't want trouble. In trying to understand it, it may be more that women get together with men who seem fine to begin with and then they show their true colours. Or have I been reading too much MN? I'll probably sound harsh when I say if women actively choose these types of men they will be a combination of reckless, lacking in intelligence, struggle to be independent and have little self respect. Then they'll reap what they sow and forever after be complaining about it.

I wouldn't say that I go for bastards/players but I do recognize that I somehow always seem to end up with emotionally unavailable, slightly wounded and complex man-children ( I know🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️). This is not deliberate - I may think they are different but they then just reveal themselves to be the same... I have to come to feel that part of it is that I myself am rather commitment phobic and probably in the fearful avoidant category, and that I actually struggle with a very emotionally available person, I feel overwhelmed and smothered. Definitely thinking about some therapy around this!

If you read the response from @EarthSight she makes a point i would never have considered in a million years, my assumption has always been the woman going into that relationship was entirely innocent from the beginning

Some women are attracted to unpleasant men because they see kindness as weakness, because not all women are nice. Some women are aggressive, very status driven or look for weakness in others to exploit, and when they're looking for a partner, they don't necessarily look for those qualities in their own male partner, although some do. They look for someone they'll respect, and that happens to be someone with the same unpleasant qualities as themselves.

So you kind of target specific types based on what you know about yourself to avoid those awkward emotional moments...that makes sense as well.

I dont think its one way. Men love a nutter as well

All anecdotal but in my social life I can think of many examples where I think it comes down to their own fathers and the way their mothers were treated by them.

When you've grown up seeing that dynamic in your parents you think that's how life 'should' be, even if subconciously. You seek out the dynamic that feels familiar and you believe at some level that that's how a real man should be - just like your hero who told you you were a princess. Even when you know it's all wrong, men just like your Dad seem attractive.

Both DSis and I have married men exactly like our dad, fortunately for us he was a good one.

It really bothers me me when people say "aww but he's a fantastic dad" about men who have been appalling to the mothers' of their children because I don't think that's possible, and that they're setting their daughters up for a lifetime of misery and showing their sons (and daughters) how to repeat the pattern.

Some men do reveal themselves later on, and are very good at hiding themselves.
But I feel like this kind of conversation always goes in that direction, which avoids another much more uncomfortable and harder to fix reality... we have normalised low level shitty behaviour in men so much that:

1. a woman can look at a man with red flags and not see any of them. She literally does not notice them, they dont register. Her radar never started working.
2. She sees the red flags, but the behaviour falls under normalised 'boys will be boys' and 'men are different to women' behaviour so she doesnt see it as a red flag. Her radar is working but she writes off the results.
3. She sees the red flags but they get justified by her/him/both that he 'had a bad experience in the past' 'struggles with his mental health' 'wasnt raised to deal with emotions'. Her radar is working but she has been trained by society that she should put up with being treated badly if the person has a 'reason' for behaving that way (and society for some reason normalised getting into relationships with people who have these issues rather than them staying single to work on them before entering into a relationship so that they dont inflict the negative consequences on anyone else)

Also it cannot be underestimated how much being surrounded by people behaving in a certain way, normalised bad behaviour in future relationships. Radar completely broken.

😂😂😂

I totally agree, i don't think you can be a fantastic dad if you treat the mother like shit...mainly because you are teaching that child that it's ok to treat a woman like that...therefore you are failing the child in a certain way.

Perhaps some women spent their childhoods in an abusive household, and grew up believing that's what a loving adult relationship looks like.

Yes, a much more succinct way to make the point I was aiming at!

When I was very young I probably was attracted to some difficult men. It's hard to say why I think that quite a lot of men have these kinds of traits especially when young and that there are not so many men as women who come off the shelf relationship ready.

I think I was naïve and assumed that them being physically attracted to me meant they really liked me when they just like my body. I also experienced the draw of the intermittent rewards of a guy who blows hot and cold. It's like a weird psychological trap because you feel responsible for their behaviour and try to fix it an make them like you all the time but under all that tumult there is a strong possibility you don't even like them that much. I also think I was a bit of a soft touch and felt sorry for guys who seemed a bit lost and wanted to love them better, however it simply doesn't work like that and these guys have to mature into good stable partners in their own time or not as the case may be.

I don't think I sought guys like that out but rather that these kinds of guys are quite prevalent when you are young as I said before. When I met my now husband it was night and day, he was one of those who came out the box ready for a relationship, much like myself, it was night and day and in hindsight I can see all the red flags of the other guys.

I think in a lot of cases, women wouldn’t respect a man who’s too nice. There’s got to be something about them to make them seem high value. If you’re too nice and too available then you’re not desirable.

That's interesting because I would say that's only the case where then women are damaged in some way themselves.

I have always seen good and kind, makes himself available, doesn't play games, as extremely high value traits.

SIL's first relationship was non-stop drama. She was 17 when it started, and they broke up and got together god knows how many times over three years before he died of a drug overdose.

She say's it broke her brain a bit, and that basically she came to associate love with pain, and drama, and a constant emotional rollercoaster.

Every "normal" bloke she met, it just felt like something was missing. She'd end up manufacturing issues just so they'd argue, and before long he'd dump her. So she kept going out with people who made life an emotional rollercoaster for her.

She finally decided enough was enough about 5 years ago, and spent 2 years completely single. She then ended up getting close to a friend she knew through a hobby, and it's developed into a really strong stable relationship. She still says she feels like somethings missing, that how can she really know he loves her if they've never been tested, and that a part of her misses the high highs that come after low lows. But she at least understands now that this kind of thinking is utterly insane, and something she needs to stamp on.

Because ‘quiet, shy bloke’ is not the opposite of a ‘bad guy’? Perfectly possibly for someone to be quiet, shy and absolutely awful. That might be one of the most common male fallacies.

Most people are naturally drawn to confidence and excitement, especially early on. Nice and predictable can be seen as boring. Of course, there’s people who don’t mind boring 😊