Why some women are attracted to difficult men/players in relationships

[OMGDidYouSayThat]

Just a thread to explore the Psychology behind why women love a bastard...

Is it excitement because of the twists and turns?
Is it because it's a project to fix?
Is it because others are attracted to them?

Interested to hear everyone's views on the subject as i can't work out why someone would go into a relationship with someone they knew was going to be a nightmare to handle...

A woman once said to me, "You're not an alpha, but you're not a beta either." I've been married a long time and my wife loves me - but she doesn't want to have sex with me, and she had at least one (very sexual) affair. There's something about me, a non-"player", that turns my wife off, sexually, and something about that guy outside of our marriage that very much turned her on. The only thing she ever said that came close to an explanation (before her affair) is her saying, "I find sex in long-term relationships difficult." I've pondered why this may be: being taught that sex is dirty therefore something to be hidden? The influence of her father, a very decent but slightly socially-inadequate man? Or just the general difficult we all seem to have when it comes to be open about our sexuality and desires? Or - probably more likely - none of these things.

There's another angle. What's the single most attractive quality a man can have? Confidence. So-called "players" usually have this. However, taking it out of the context of sexual relationships, I have to recognise that I find confidence attractive in my male friendships, so it's an important factor beyond just sexual relationships. In the early years of our marriage, I was stricken with, I suppose, a lack of confidence: I was trying to be a half-decent father, having two sons from a previous relationship, struggling with a difficult job whilst having a couple of fairly common chronic illnesses, and being utterly bewildered and dumbfounded by my wife's apparent and sudden lack of attraction for me. So, my confidence - and probably any degree of attractiveness I had - plummeted.

Talking shite to a woman in a bar, or online, is a piece of piss. Holding down a life and keeping things together, whilst remaining attractive to your long-term partner, is far more difficult.

There are some other great ideas in this thread. At almost 60, I am, in some ways, at peace with myself, but the idea of what attracts women is still a fascinating one, because it's what the continuation of the species is built on.

In all honestly most men do things to beat/please other men, not women. Some women have been bought up surrounded by men like this and love it (see internalised misogyny women can have completely unknowingly, where they see men who don't have hobbies that involve fast cars/violence/alcohol or drugs to be "wet"). If you are a man who does these things (I think a young man today would call that an "alpha" despite that being a ridiculous misconception) then you will hopefully attract a woman who's dad did the same things. Sometimes people equate this with class as well - if someone's dad loves footy or cricket can be a distinction for example. But some men don't just like sport, cars and porn, and instead enjoy reading and travel - this is what a lot of women also like to do (not all but a lot I'd say). So as long as you can string a sentence together, have something interesting to say which shows you can use your brain or have read a book, it should be clear you don't want to spend the rest of your life on a football pitch every weekend or in the gym comparing your sweaty muscles to other men in some weird dominance ritual that only really impresses other men. You might even have some empathy and done some self-reflection to make yourself a better human than you were a few years ago.

This is why the whole idea women love "alphas" is completely wrong for the majority of women.

This is a really interesting read and i can relate to it @LochSunart i suspect the ‘ideal’ would involve splitting what a woman wants and what a woman needs, she probably needs security, honesty, loyalty and love but she wants excitement, risk and fun, i’m hypothesising here obviously and i’m guessing the same can be said for men as well. Very few individuals are capable of being all those things, security doesn’t come from taking risks for example.

I think some women like the thrill of being with a guy who other women may question as it’s like a talking point. They like the controversy and possibly drama.

I was a player back in the day and it never put a lot of women off. I remember once being at a party where a girl was telling all the girls not to go near me because I had fucked around with her friends. But it only drew some women towards me and the one who initially seemed to be so shocked by my terrible behaviour ended up fucking me. Go figure but this happened all the time.

Did it for a laugh stayed for the sex. Fell in love. He calmed down. Now he’s the family man and I’m still a little untamed but he loves it. Didn’t go so well for my friends who dated similar types. I’d say some love the drama, some love the excitement but when things get dark or woman start getting older and their clocks ticking they see the light and every so often some of these men do to. When they both see the light then things can be amazing when only one does it’s hard to get out

As an adult I found the love that I had received as a child. I didn’t really know that I could ask for better. When I did state my needs and my DH ignored me and punished me for asking (not directly but would freeze me out for a time). I thought it was my fault for being too needy or that somehow I was too demanding. I thought if I was a better wife and mother and more accommodating that he would feel so lucky to have me. Needless to say that didn’t happen.

I do realise now that he just doesn’t have the capacity to be what I expect in a partner. We are separated after 25 years. I am on my own and am quite concerned that I will never have a romantic relationship with someone who actually likes me and sees me as special. I think he just sees me as his helper to facilitate his amazing self. I don’t think he has ever questioned this belief, he just can’t figure out what my problem is.

I’n one of these women. I’ve had years of therapy but whilst I have made some progress I still end up with the same type of man each time and people don’t get it.
I think in my case it’s down to very low self esteem and because I feel a real purpose when I am needed. I know that most people here will call me pathetic but that’s simply who I am, and I am sure that there are many others like me here who won’t admit it.

Your SIL reminds me a bit of a girlfriend I had years ago. She too needed a relationship to be an emotional rollercoaster and if I wasn't providing that then she'd pick a fight out of nowhere to fill the void. It was exhausting. At first I thought the conflicts were being caused by something I was getting wrong or a miscommunication but when I realised that the drama was the goal, I bowed out. I suspect in her case it was learned behaviour from her upbringing as her parents' relationship was messy.

My dad said to me “Women always think a man will change and he won’t.”

On this one it will be that the guy is charming and they are flattered and think “he won’t be like that this time around with me.”

With DSis it was trying to fill a void. Our dad died suddenly when we were teenagers (she’s the youngest) and she just didn’t grieve or process it properly. She dated a string of guys who would love bomb her and treat her like a prize for the first few weeks and then would let her down/voice their doubts/be actively coercive and difficult and she was in another mess again. She’s exceptionally clever and very pretty so no shortage of admirers. Eventually she took a break from dating, had therapy and then started going out with her now DH. A thoroughly decent guy who had been a friend for years and already in love with her but had been waiting in the wings knowing she wouldn’t look twice at him as a boyfriend. After the therapy she totally changed her understanding of herself and what she actually needed in a relationship. This guy wasn’t into treating her like a princess but then dropping her from a great height, he was reliable,steady and kind. She fell properly in love with him and they’ve been happily married for 25 years now.

When someone experiences a trauma or loss like that and they’re subconsciously looking to replace a dad with a romantic relationship they end up in all the wrong places. DSis was looking for that unconditional love that only a parent can give you. She misinterpreted early declarations of love and grand gestures for that and was then in the depths of despair when it turned out they were just trying to impress her and didn’t really feel that strongly. How could they? They hardly knew her. That neediness also seemed to attract exactly the kind of guy who would feed off the adulation she gave them but then got fed up with it quickly and would treat her badly. It was a toxic combination.

I think it often comes down to the adrenaline rush.

All emotions are exactly the same in terms of physiological response. Its the context that determines how you interpret it eg excitement of Christmas Eve vs nerves of a job interview.

Some women interpret the adrenaline rush of a difficult man as passion, love, excitement and others as fear, anxiety and a red flag.

Which of those you read it as will really be down to your upbringing, expectations, lessons you have learnt about love and what it looks like from your own parents.

Some men who are difficult also come across as dynamic, confident and knowing what they want out of life. Some women find that appealing.

There's also the association/experience of men who seem to be easy going, non confrontational and drama free who also end up being passive and indecisive.

And some women have a strong desire to 'fix' someone. Maybe reading a lack of resilience as vulnerability. Some women are drawn to vulnerability in others in a range of relationship types.

I think in my case it’s down to very low self esteem and because I feel a real purpose when I am needed.

I think this is a really important observation (and not pathetic at all). A lot of women are raised to put other people first and measure their worth in what they can do for others.

There are often threads on MN where a woman is asking if she's unreasonable to put a boundary in place when a 'friend' is behaving like a CF. There will always be a sizeable minority who will think she is and who claim that they would be happy to help anyone if they could. Even when providing that help would be detrimental to themselves.

I think there’s a lot of that. When I was young people used to make all kinds of excuses for men’s shitty behaviour. I think it’s changing now because women are alerting other women to these red flags.

I also think it’s true that if you’ve been neglected or abused in childhood you’re far less likely to spot love bombing - it feels like someone finally gets you and cares for you and is very seductive. You don’t know it’s not real until too late.

I had all kinds of issues that made me more vulnerable to terrible men.

I thought someone being nice meant they were a good person;
Someone saying something awful was not a red flag it was normal and I thought it was me who needed to shape up;
I didn’t spot self absorbed people as I was used to people being self obsessed;
I didn’t know that actions spoke louder than words;
Someone being genuinely caring felt scary as I wasn’t used to it and felt uncomfortable because they could reject me/take it away and that was too scary;
People had never observed my boundaries so it seemed natural for people to cross them;
And someone making me feel special felt like heaven.

I didn’t consciously look for bad boys. In fact I was looking for someone lovely. But I wasn’t equipped to find that for the above reasons. Lots of therapy has helped hugely. By the way a lot of men who think they’re nice guys are actually vile and entitled. Try rejecting them however nicely and see how they respond.

I definitely think some women want what others have or have had, going there when you know that someone is a player already precludes you from any form of sympathy when it goes tits up, i can only imagine those that do don’t care if they get used or hurt, doesn’t make a lot of sense!

I think all towns have a bike, male and female, we have several and they seem to always be with someone, strange as everyone knows what they are. We have one guy in our town that has impregnated at least 5 women that i know, why would you want to go with someone like that! Maybe it’s because he does the school runs and uses it as a way chat up women as there kids all go to the same school, serial playground love bomber 😂

Yeah we had one of those at our primary - it was as if he could tell which women were so dog tired and lacking support from their partners that they were easy pickings. A lot of men do drop the ball post child, or find their wives unattractive it seems, which makes them more likely to fall for a sweet talking charming "hands on dad" in the playground.

Great post @SnowflakeSmasher86 Really astute and incisive.

Yeah i bet it’s pretty common, and the man has probably identified that she’s now got several hours a day where she’s child free and her partner might be at work, the worst kind of predator, on the subject of dropping the ball, interestingly i found my wife more attractive after childbirth, i wasn’t really focussing on body or mood changes, i found her more attractive emotionally because she had given me the one thing i always wanted, a baby girl. I can’t say i have ever found her unattractive even when she’s been poorly and normal body changes post menopause haven’t made her any less attractive to me.

Because you don’t know any different. Difficult father, difficult ExH. We repeat what we know.

5 women impregnated. Jesus, at least when I was up to no good back in the day, I always used protection. But I was a man whore, although living in a big city allowed me some discretion.

A lot of these bastards have a lot of charm, and if they are good looking and successful it can seem like a huge compliment if they single you out. They also put themselves out there so they might look more successful with women than they are, the quiet, shy man who doesn't really engage much with others at work or in social settings just won't get the same opportunities. I wouldn't go for them, I think most women don't actually but some definitely do.

They are just the ones i know about, i’m not sure what the attraction is either to be honest, he doesn’t strike me as someone women would find attractive but maybe the love bombing is good! I can’t get my head around the fact that the women who have had his babies seem to have no shame, they are friendly in the playground knowing they all have a kid by the same weirdo.

That's so interesting @OMGDidYouSayThat I recognise there are horrible women like that but I've tended to think they've gone for far less aggressive partners so they can carry out their bad behaviour without much challenge. If their male partner is as bad as they are, wouldn't that be a bit too much competition? Another theory is that evolution has something to do with women going for 'bad boys' on the basis the bad boys were quite good at surviving which gave women and their children a better chance of surviving too - although that doesn't really stack up in a modern world. All I see with those kinds of men is trouble.

It’s weird that some people equate excitement with being an arse - where is the excitement in that?! I find my husband attractive, exciting, loving, respectful. I would view players as a bit pathetic and the opposite of ‘manly’.

This guy is on another level. I basically told the women politely that I was a fuck boy and that was literally it. I never gave them ideas of relationships, or kids. Even as a fuck boy, I had basic rules about safety and etiquette.

So in terms of women who enter relationships with these types of guys then I’m as stumped as you are!

Can someone please explain the bit about 'wanting excitement' because I've never wanted excitement from a person, only an activity. If I want excitement (and I almost died doing it so that was excitement enough) I went scuba diving, incidentally where I met DH. Or I might go for a challenging run in the rain or a storm, or drive the car recklessly because I'm feeling a bit nuts. But what is the draw of so-called excitement from being with a bad man? What does he do that makes life exciting? Gets as high as a kite then climbs a tall building? Attacks police officers? Owns a dangerous dog? Has an arsenal of weapons in his wardrobe. I'm really lost.