August 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have started a new thread as the other one is now full.

Im beginning to see the use of roles. I can see why my ex H called me a bad wife who didn’t perform as other wives. He used to come home and tell me about his clients wives and what they did for their husbands. He had this idea about the role of a wife. I used to say to him that those wife’s may be manipulated, or maybe their husbands treat them with respect so they do those things out of love. Why should I do things for a man who makes me clean the whole house and look after our child and tell me I do nothing all day. A relationship is earned through love and trust. He used to bully me into the role of “wife”. I didn’t want to be a wife.

My SIL is the perfect wife. Before I got rid of the group chat she’d post the meals she cooked her bf everyday for when he came from work and the family would all commend. I got compared to her and I still do. It used to make me sad but after knowing her she isn’t happy, very insecure. She plays a role really well but she is sad so what’s the point in a life that looks good but you are sad in. You can be a good wife and still have friends, go out, your H can cook and take the kids out etc and you can have an equal say.

@MustIgo It must be very difficult being the caring partner of someone who grew up in a dysfunctional family but can't really see it. In many ways, my family were similar to your PIL. They didn't spend their time on nice holidays etc but I was The Capable One so whilst GB1 and GB2 were offered lots of help and support I was expected to just get on with it and in fact sacrifice my own time/resources to help them. If I ever complained that things were difficult for me, or didn't want to prioritise GB1/GB2 I was treated as awful and selfish. My parents expected us to take our DC to visit them regularly and would regularly drive for hours to help GB1 and visit his DC, but I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times they ever visited us. DH saw this quite clearly but I always found an excuse- they were tired from having to support GB1/GB2, they had a bigger house so better for us to visit there, they knew I had DH to help me so in fact it was a complement that they didn't feel the need to step in etc etc. DH made a joke that [road from us to parents] only works one way, which really annoyed me and we argued about it sometimes. Why couldn't he understand that my parents were not being unfair to us?
I have seen it for what it really is now but it's taken a lot of time and some fairly extreme behaviour from my parents. A whole lifetime of being trained to see their behaviour as entirely normal and reasonable is hard to overcome. Since reading your post I have asked myself what I would have done if DH had called all of it out decades ago and said I should not take our DC to see my parents. I'm really not sure I know. I know I saw through some of it and was trying to persuade myself really. I think I would have understood if DH refused to see my parents, and I suspect it would have made things come to a head sooner, but I think whilst I was seeing my parents I would have insisted on taking the DC too. Even though I now see that it would have been perfectly reasonable if he said I shouldn't.

It was only said as a joke (we have been together for many years and he has always been completely on my side through everything) but DH said a recently that if he'd know what a messed up family I had he might have had second thoughts about being with me. Which sounds unkind out of context, but logically I know my background has made me hard work, and my family's treatment of him (and expectations of him) has frequently been awful.

@MustIgo It’s a very difficult situation you’re in, but if he can’t see it, he can’t see it - if you’ve already really tried, then there’s nothing more you can do. At the end of the day, they’re his DC so if you separated over not being able to agree, he could just take the DC to the grandparents on his contact time, and you wouldn’t be any better off.

I was similar to @formalwellies and couldn’t see what was wrong with my parents either. My DH often took the brunt of their unreasonable behaviour. In the end, he went NC with them which I understand and support. But what led up to that was quite extreme too. My DH always knew his mum was abusive, but I didn’t go NC until her behaviour towards me became unbearable. (By the way wellies, I hope you don’t feel too down about having a shit family because we all have our own cross to bear, and it’s not like you yourself have gambling or addiction problems or whatever, and you’ve done phenomenally well breaking the pattern in your family and should be proud that despite that being where you came from you’ve managed to get where you are now).

What you’re facing is difficult precisely because of how easily dismissed it is. There’s nothing overt enough to make it clear to him, so it can all be explained away. If I were you I would try the thing I said about getting him to agree what makes a good, supportive relationship - maybe as an exercise for you to agree with your children so you’re all on the same page. Maybe over time he’ll see how often they do things that don’t fit with his own given idea of a good relationship.

@Eeriefairy Thank you. Over the years I've felt upset, frustrated, angry, sad and most negative emotions really about how my family have been with me. There were years of disappointment where I thought my parents would eventually see that I was not to blame for spoiling the 'lovely close family' image. But the final push over the edge has been the way I've been treated when I won't sacrifice myself and my own family life entirely to be Mum's carer/GB2s childcare/support human. Now I just feel a bit annoyed with myself for putting up with it for so long and not walking away completely several decades ago.
@MustIgo I really like Eeriefairy's idea of trying to get your DH to discuss (perhaps in the context of how you should bring up your own DC and how you should behave yourself) what you both can agree makes a good relationship and how you want to treat your own children etc. I know that realising how differently I wanted to treat my own children from the way I'd been brought up was a big eye opener for me. Mine are now young adults and I still have moments were I think 'I can't believe I was that age when I was expected to do X'. Most recently now that DS is a similar age to when a particularly nasty bout of violence from GB1 against me (still a school child) was dismissed as 'just a bit of fighting amongst children'. I can't imagine seeing DS do the same and not wanting to do everything I could to protect the younger sibling (and thankfully can't imagine DS doing anything remotely like it to anyone of any age).

He already knows what a good supportive relationship is because he’s a good partner and a good dad and a good friend and manager at work. His parents just aren’t that in return and he just says they are just like this. His trouble is he has zero boundaries and zero expectations and he gives himself freely. He has no maliciousness or anger or anything. He doesn’t even recognise when people are being unkind to him. He was bullied as a kid but didn’t recognise.

My partner also can’t do that “women should be at home” shit like the dad and brother because it’s my house we live in! I definitely don’t fit that role and I have bigger voice because I have some money of my own. I think this is a big contributing factor. I learned that with my ex H. When they hold all the power they can get away with more. I can kick him out if I need to so that rubbish would not work. I will teach this to my girls…always have your own money so you are not dependent.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do with the anger? I think being in peri is not helping me. I am actually very angry underneath it all. Angry that they get away with it. Both my ex and now MIL they always win. Either you weak and boundary less or they manipulated you or you know who they are but you can’t do anything about it. I know my MIL knows I know and she knows I can’t say or do anything and it’s making me feel very weak. She gets in via her son, via her whole image. I am not the only women in the family who she has done this to. The others have accepted it and carry on. I am currently mad she is taking me for a fool and I want to shout it out but I will only look like a mad women for doing so.

@MustIgo I have no advice on how to manage the anger, but understand completely how you feel. My FOO have done such a good job of creating an image of the perfect family that whenever I've tried to challenge that it's been fairly easy for them to badge me as jealous/attention seeking/over-reacting etc. The current situation is just one example of this- I've dared to go against what GB2 wants and am being treated as selfish, uncaring and spoiling our lovely family whilst GB2 is lauded as the selfless, wonderful son who just wants to work together for Mum's benefit. Despite the fact that GB2 is aggressive and threatening towards me and in my view manipulating Mum for financial reasons. It's hard not to feel anger when they cause upset for you but don't seem to ever face any consequences and are viewed positively. I have been keeping away and reminding myself that no one who matters to me is taken in by any of this. I also remind myself that I can't change how they behave or how anyone else sees them but I don't have to allow them access to my life or to interfere with my plans. It sounds like that's harder for you because the current situation is with you in-laws and your DH is not yet ready to see them for what they are.

I think part of my struggle is with my own ‘tism’. The sense of injustice I can’t let go. The way I’m perceived I can’t let go. I’m very honest about who I am and how I struggle and I’m happy to talk about this without shame. What I absolutely hates is intruths. These aren’t just slights, they are complete identity lies about me. I NEED to put them right stop my tism from trying to solve it, but I’m also wise enough to know it will make me worse off…I hate this!!!!

My mum seems to have been attempting to make an effort over the past month, although it feels very forced. I wonder if DB did have a word with her and this is a result of that. She's been messaging, asking me actual questions about my life!

About my job (I've been there nearly 2 years, she's never mentioned it) About the DC, although in a very restricted way "what projects are they doing at school?" so not a general 'what are they up to and what are they in to'. Asking if DH and I get any time to ourselves (Ha!)

But then the rest of her message is about 5 paragraphs (at least it would be, if she used them) about things happening with her (or her neighbour's cousin's dog's goldfish) So really, its just like her previous phone calls where she's telling me as much as she can. There's no response to anything I say in return.

Just yesterday, she messaged to say she had put money in my account and sent a card for DD's birthday (that's all she does for birthdays/xmas). I asked if she had read my last message to her, which I sent 2 weeks ago which was part of a back and forth conversation we were having and, which contained important updates regarding my DD's medical/educational needs. Certainly worthy of acknowledgement, its a big deal to us. And she simply replied "the last message I had from you was Monday 14th September." Er, yes that's the one. Why would you have nothing to say about your disabled DGD's wellbeing?! Are you made of stone?!

I Think they made of shit tbh! I think it’s like a one way road, when you go the wrong way everyone looks funny at you. I don’t understand it either I really don’t. I guess your daughter’s medical situation is not about her and so I have come to understand that’s all that drives the behaviour. Even caring about someone, being interested, supporting etc in her world means handing power and attention over and they simply can’t. What a messed up world they live in. I’m sorry about your daughter. I’ve got two kids with additional needs, life threatening allergies and the stress and worry on a mum’s head is enormous. I know how this feels and the to be dismissed, it’s awful.

Thank you for understanding. The dismissal of it does hurt because its been a very stressful time for us and all mum really would need to say is "oh that's great that school are giving her support etc'. Just words of encouragement or support would be nice.

This next year will be tough for us (transition to high school) and DD is complex so there's lots of different things going on which is all happening because I send the emails, I make the phone calls, I take her to the appointments, I talk the talk in meetings. We all go through so much and its just a punch in the face when it's ignored by someone who thinks she is superior.

@SlowSloths oh, it’s just awful isn’t it? I think they might as well be made of stone. I think you’re probably right that your DB said something and so she’s “trying” but not actually interested/doesn’t really get what she’s supposed to be asking/how to actually connect. And I think Must is right, that it’s just because it’s not about her. She doesn’t really care and it doesn’t affect her, so why would she ask or respond?

My eldest is starting secondary next year and is trialing medication next week for her ADHD which I’m worried about. She’s also getting a dyslexia test. I’m also worried as she has several anaphylactic allergies and will the school be any good. Seriously parenting is just so much. I literally can’t get my head around how they don’t see or feel the stress and want to help. Even bloody strangers and teachers and neighbours are more invested. I want to scream out loud and tell all the narcs friends and family what they are really like. This is NOT FAMILY, this is barely even human! Sorry it just makes me mad when I talk about it. I hope you get some rest, someone to talk to, some people who care.

It doesn’t make sense. Your biological grandchildren are literally part of you. It’s all that matters, we’ve had our life. I had my children late, I saw life and experienced life and there is nothing out there that beats family, especially children, this is life. Nothing beats talking to a 3 year old, their laugh, their stories…..I wish someone could make it make sense.

@Eeriefairy yeah it doesn't affect her life at all. I've tried to keep her in the loop about things. The only thing she has questioned is when my DD will be getting something relating to her appearance sorted.

@MustIgo I hope the medication helps. Serious allergies must be terrifying to deal with too. We are in the, sometimes infuriating situation, where DD doesn't look physically disabled but she is, and so it takes more conversation for people to understand. I put all my efforts into explaining it all to the important people who can make a difference to her. Mum can't be bothered understanding after all these years.

Fortunately, school staff are great and I have some really great colleagues who i can confide in and they can tell just by looking at me if something is up. I don't like to burden people though, everyone has got their own shit going on.

You only have to spend a small amount of time with someone to know they are afraid
or stressed etc. It’s not that it isn’t visible enough it’s just they don’t care (can’t care) however it needs wording. I am an over explainer, Ive learnt that this is a learned behaviour. You don’t need to explain anything to the right people. It’s a very hard lesson to learn because we can only assume people are the same as us when they really aren’t.

I just had a flash back from holiday where we were talking about holiday destinations. MIL said all you need is a field and I said that I love to see the sea on holidays, I just love to watch the water. It turned into a massive discussion where she got mad. I can only imagine what being her child would be like. My H calls me every time he goes shopping and he has a decision to make about something. It drives me mad, I always just say what do you think, just pick whatever as we are ok with anything. All these kids know is their mum, what she likes, what she thinks, her preferences etc. On hols when my kids said she makes the best camping breakfast her whole body lit up, she looked at me. I’m happy for them, it doesn’t affect me, it just breakfast. This is the training you must have all had?

@SlowSloths my MiL is exactly the same re appearances. That’s what really matters. You could tell her you’d got a doctorate and she’d not say a thing but if you told her you’d gone to a stylist or something she’d want to know every detail. Not because she cares, but because she might want one herself and also she can put you down during the conversation “I would have thought that style was a bit young for you” or “didn’t they give you any advice about how to minimise your big feet” etc.

I don’t suppose there’s anything you can do really, except stop answering her calls?

@MustIgo I don’t think my parents are narcs, but I absolutely relate to this everything being done in exactly their way. I think as I was growing up I saw my mum always giving in to what my dad wanted and then being resentful, so I think that helped me decide that I was going to be more proactive in saying what I want and making sure I don’t always put myself last. I put my DH and my DC first a lot, but I really make sure that it isn’t all the time. If your in-laws all seemed happy with it, maybe that’s how your husband thinks couples or families get along and keep each other happy - always giving the decision to the wife? Some people even say that don’t they? Happy wife, happy life. Maybe he thinks that’s his role?

In the family I have created we don’t do us and them or what I think is better than you. What you like is what you like and that’s amazing and what I like is what I like and that’s amazing. We are all amazing, we all like different things and that’s just normal, it’s not a reflection of anything at all. What I like suits me and my nervous system and my little neurons, that’s all. It’s not a problem for me to come and do your thing with you, it makes me happy to do your thing and you feel happy. I still exist in doing your things.

I saw this, it’s so true!

It kind of all makes sense now. My ex saw me, a person with high qualifications (I was fresh out of my masters) he saw my empathy and he thought he could make use of me. What he didn’t want, or what he couldn’t tolerate was me. That’s why I got abused so badly, he was ridding me of me. Every time I didn’t perform or I spoke out I was punished. Stupid tho because I eventually couldn’t access my empathy, I couldn’t work because I was mentally unwell. I became of no use despite pumping me for more. That’s probably why I’m not able to attach to my partners parents, they also don’t want me. I am no longer willing to give this new voice I’ve achieved up, it’s a stalemate. Attachment is really important, I can only imagine as a child what a child would do to remain attached to a parent. I do have a person underneath the 12 years os abuse I suffered with my ex, it’s very different now but it was there. I can only imagine what it must feel like to not have formed any identity before.

Yes thats the training! Took me a long time to realise I could have a different opinion to my mum and that is was perfectly OK, not wrong as I was always led to believe.

All my opinions on nearly every subject have been different. That’s why I’m perceived as wrong or the troublemaker and the over sensitive highly strung one. All I’m doing is being me.

i am still having a difficult time on all fronts. I’m struggling to even manage a phone call with my elderly mum still.

on top of everything else over in the sidelines of my life There’s a family wedding next autumn, I have had a save the date which was completely unexpected. My DNs parents don’t speak to me. My mums comments on the topic since the engagement are a save the date doesn’t mean you will actually be invited. She also told me she would definitely not be going, completely ok as it’s a very long way from everyone so because of that I was not going to go.

I now know that’s not true and she is going as one of my other siblings is taking her. So now I think I will have to go. I’d love to see my DN get married and I would love to see my mum, I just don’t want to see anyone else. Not sure what to do.

oh and to give further clarity we got engaged 6 years ago had hoped to marry the next year. We have never married as everyone refused to come and said some truly awful things to us. So my mum won’t come to my wedding but is now going to my DNs.

@SlowSloths @MustIgo I think every dysfunctional family has it's own version of 'the training' but they all seem to train you to firmly believe that the 'family way' is the best and anyone who disagrees is not just different but objectively wrong (and probably not to be trusted). I think they need this to train us to think that our family is right about everything (even the small inconsequential things) so that we are less likely to challenge the bigger stuff. They rarely actually outright say 'everyone else is wrong, don't listen to them' but we still get the message from being very young based on their comments about other people and how they treat us and others.

It really works. Even though I was not treated well by my family, even as a young adult I can genuinely remember thinking how lucky I was that my parents were the absolute best and everyone else's parents were not as clever/caring/hard working etc as mine. I told myself that their unwavering support for GB1/GB2 even when they were behaving extremely badly (sometimes criminally) was a sign of how much they loved us all, that there was nothing they could have done about the treatment I endured at the hands of GB1/GB2 and that I owed them my loyalty and help. I have only seen through this very slowly over many decades, and really only because having my own DC has forced me to look closely at how I want to bring them up.
@OneNewEagle Do you think that the 'save the date' could be your DN's way of sending you a message they they would like to see you? I assume they are aware of the 'tensions' (I know it's more than that) between you and their parents? It sounds like your mum (possibly encouraged by the sibling they are travelling with?) is trying to put you off going so I'd worry that they will make it awkward for you. Do you think it could be worth speaking to the DN to say that you'd love to see them but worry that the rest of the family won't be happy about your presence and you don't want to do anything to upset their special day. See what they say and perhaps arrange to meet up another time?
Re your own wedding- Your family's treatment of you is shit. Even if they don't want to go, why do they need to say horrible things? If you want to get married, could you have a lovely small ceremony with just a few friends (or even just the 2 of you and a couple of witnesses?). I had the opposite problem where my parents wanted to use my wedding as a show of family solidarity and put pressure on me to invite people I truly hated. If I had my time to come again I would have loved to have an incredibly small wedding somewhere beautiful, even if it was just with a couple of friends. You could even just get the formalities done quickly in a registry office then take yourselves away for a lovely honeymoon with the money you save from not catering for your awful family. You could even reframe it as a step towards a new life without their toxic influence.