August 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have started a new thread as the other one is now full.

I saw them today at a birthday. Someone mentioned baby showers and my MIL pipes in about all “those” show off women going look at me look at me….wtaf. What other people celebrate is none of her business. It’s basically about people coming together to celebrate good news with people they love. I had a very small one at home with friends, no family. My MiL seems to have a real thing about women showing off, yet she is a massive covert show off. It is such an irony. So they view others as attention seeking and manipulative when they get attention and it’s dirty to want attention.

That’s horrible @OneNewEagle I know it doesn’t actually fix the problems you want fixed, but my DH and I got married with only witnesses basically as we didn’t want most of his family there. There were specific people we would have wanted but DH didn’t want the drama of inviting them but not his mum etc, so it seemed simpler. We also didn’t invite my own family so it would “seem fair”. I know that doesn’t make it any less painful that your own family wouldn’t want to attend your wedding, but if you want to be married don’t let them stop you. I’m sorry your family are so difficult.

Just read wellies post - I like the idea of reframing it as a step towards your new life without their toxicity!

@OneNewEagle that part of “I’m just being me”! That hits. The accusations of attention seeking etc, the way they load what we do with negative connotations. All we are doing is just being me. It’s not attention seeking it’s existing, liking things, collecting things, being excited about things, living authentically. Some people are passionate and expressive but that’s not for others, it’s just them, it’s not a flaw or seeking to just be different.

I wonder if they are confused about how a person should extract attention? They believe it comes from controlling and achieving etc when actually it’s supposed to just be given freely. They as kids should have just been given attention without having to do anything. They now can’t give it away.

We wanted to do that but our register office you need to know who your two witnesses are. They don’t allow staff to be them or people off the street (it’s not a street so wouldn’t work anyway). We don’t have two witnesses.

We both got upset in different ways about it all and just left it for now. We are both probably angry and upset for the other if that makes sense, my DP is mostly very upset for me as I got in a right state as I was so ashamed.

My siblings have all had big show off type weddings (which parents contributed towards or paid for outright) and it gets to my turn and neither parent, or siblings, will come and definitely not helping with anything. The only person who ever showed any interest and kindness was my stepmum but she and my father are now divorced.

we have had a chat about it again a while ago then parked it. Neither wants to be the one whose family ruined it if that makes sense.

Thank you. It’s all so hard.

@formalwellies I assume DN has heard my siblings bad mouthing me many many times. They weren’t exactly great around me before we got to this level either.so yes I think it’s to show they would like me there really.

As I have had a few months to think about it all since the save the date also DN as a parent with an estranged sibling on the other side too. In that case as far as I am aware it’s an estranged brother due to criminal problems and addiction (been in the local papers for that area and all sorts. I don’t endorse the crime but I understand fully how these things happen if your family aren’t there when you need them).

DN might be starting to think the parents could be the ones at fault here if they both have picked some siblings to speak to and kick the others out of the family.

@MustIgo your mil sounds so much like my DPs mum. Bad mouthing all and sundry, the women that is. But always wants herself and her daughter to be the centre of attention. I didn’t stand a chance around them.

I know @MustIgo All of my life experiences, choices, hobbies, interests have always been wrong. Everything about me was always wrong when all I’m trying to do is just be me and enjoy life.

i am always happy when people are doing things they enjoy as it’s nice to see.

Are people all so horrible and insular these days that even a friend, neighbour or colleague won't be a witness for your wedding Eagle? That's shocking. People suck.

I hear you with the "being wrong" thing too. The demise of mine and the narcs relationship was because I started calling them out every time they were rude about me having a different opinion to them. They just couldn't accept it.

We don’t have any friends. We became unimportant to everyone. As well as the family my best friend since junior school so over 40 years now also said she wouldn’t be a witness, our friendship has never recovered.

I moved a long way away over twenty years ago for a fresh start and then met my DP. We have a lovely neighbour but she’s in her 90s. It’s just us. Both estranged from family due to reasons given and in my case a billion other reasons.

anyway doesn’t matter we are ok. My DP has a good job which he enjoys and travels a lot which he also likes. We have our cosy home and rescue pets (I have my adult dc), the bills are always paid and we have food. We just have the blight in our lives of toxic families.

Snap. I am so very different to my partner and his family. I’ve come about things so very differently, my journey has been challenging and I’ve made mistakes, but also eye opening and I’ve experienced a lot. I would say it makes me richer and I’ve a lot more empathy for people because I realise that a lot of bad situations and bad choices come about because a person has no other choices. These people live a sheltered life and the judgement makes me sick. They think they’ve been special enough to not be like others, no divorces etc but the reality is people divorce people like them everyday. They are the bullies, the controlling people that others are brave enough to leave. It’s funny that the specialness about them is actually gross and what they despise it actually the beauty of other families. The ability other families have to just love and support each other.

You have so much, other people would love what you have so I hope you see things through a good lens. Peace is worth every person and every possession in the world. I hope you get married, I hope you do it to silently celebrate all that you have been through. You can just ask strangers to witness. It’s not the people that you are celebrating it’s the marking of your success as a mother and a wife a human who against all odds has actually turns out decent. I would not want any of them there.

Last week GB2 offered up the world's least sincere apology for his aggressive behaviour (honestly, it really was awful- no mention of what he was supposedly sorry for, delivered in a sarcastic monotone and just 'I am very sorry', not even in the same room just sort of mumbled through the door). I'm sure in his mind this was a winning move-sufficiently obvious to me that he didn't mean that we'd all know he was in control but the word 'sorry' clearly stated so he could claim he had done his best to resolve things. The possible outcomes would be a) I'd play nice, say it's all forgiven and get back to doing things his way; or b) I'd not accept the apology (and stick to my boundaries) then he could tell Mum and everyone else that he really tried and just wants to be friends but nasty Wellies is just being uncaring and unreasonable.
Obviously I triggered option b and, would you believe it, the lovely son who just made a mistake and is very sorry has followed this up with (drum roll please...) more aggression! There's been a bit more to it over a few days but basically his response has been 'I said I was F**ing sorry now do what I say!!' Since I am so unreasonable that I won't respond to that he is now attempting to cut me off from contacting Mum and has started the process of gathering the flying monkeys.
What he clearly hasn't understood is that for a while now I've sort of known this was likely to happen and have already got my head around not having to care what the extended family think of me. I'm sad that my relationship with Mum has come to this, and feel sorry for her being so vulnerable and being led to believe that I have turned my back on her when she's unwell. But she has created the monster and I have to prioritise my own family and wellbeing. As for the flying monkeys (extended family)- there have always been huge signs/red flags that things were not right but they have never so much as asked me if I was OK. When I went NC with GB1 to protect myself and my family they happily accepted that I was the bad guy and not one of them called to see how I was (even though I had a newborn at the time). So no, their opinion is of no consequence to me.
I think GB2 expects me to be angry, upset and quite possibly begging him to allow me back in. I actually just feel resigned and sick of it all, but with no further reason to tell anything but the truth to anyone who might ask me.

@formalwellies i hope that there’s a way you might still be able to be in contact with your mum.

as for the saying sorry I read these things on here and think we are all related to the same people. A few years back before my siblings stopped speaking to me they had problems with someone else in the extended family. It doesn’t matter what about but it is the I’m sorry bit that made it come to mind.

I was explaining to one sibling that it doesn’t matter whether you think you should say sorry or not and whether you did or did not do a thing. what matters is the other person is hurt and very upset so of course you say sorry as you don’t want then to feel like that. And if you can’t word it sincerely and properly because you are being difficult for whatever reason and because of what has happened just say I’m really sorry I hurt your feelings. (The apology to the other relation never happened, neither side would apologise)

At the time I thought this is very strange why am I explaining to a grown adult how to say sorry and why don’t they seem to know how to. Sp because of this I know nothing will change in their approach to me as they don’t even know how to say sorry. I can’t even blame this particular bit on my upbringing as of course we were made to say sorry as kids plus I’m the eldest so I taught the younger ones skills like this.

@OneNewEagle if the concern is that the witnesses would have to have ID so you can’t just find people in the street anymore, could you ask someone like the local pub landlord if they and their own +1 could come to the register office with their IDs and be your witnesses? They don’t have to be people you know, they just have to be identified people who witness you both saying your vows, and sign the register to say so.

I also get the sorry not sorry thing from my family. I can’t actually ever remember my mum saying sorry except in a sarcastic but very emotional way (sorry I’m such a shit mother, for example). My sister and my dad are likely to say “sorry but”- something that excuses or reduces their accountability. “Sorry but I didn’t know” (yes you did) etc.

@formalwellies I don’t understand how anyone couldn’t put two and two together about you cutting off your GB1 when you had a newborn - that should just be so obvious to anyone that you must have had real reasons to do that. It’s good you know these people aren’t worth bothering about now. You have said a number of times that if you could go back and make different decisions, you would have gone NC with all of them a long time ago - maybe what your GB is doing now is providing you with an opportunity to get back on that path? You don’t have to feel bad for your mother - this is all her chickens coming home to roost from what I can tell.

@Eeriefairy Logically you are spot on that actually this is all giving me the perfect opportunity to do what I should have done decades ago and just cut contact with them all. It is inevitably what will happen because even if I want to be in contact with Mum once she loses the ability to answer her phone (which given her condition is just a matter of time) GB2 will have complete control of who she can speak to. Emotionally it's another matter- I know I'd have had to battle feelings of guilt if I'd gone NC with my parents when they were both fit and well but now that Mum is alone and vulnerable I can't shake the feeling that I'm throwing her to the wolves (even though I know logically that they are wolves she has created and that I have been warning her to be wary of for a long time).
I know I'll just have to get my head around that, and deal with wondering if I could/should have done more to try to stop this from happening.
Cutting off GB1 when my first child was born has been sold to close extended family members as me being overly precious because GB1 'liked a drink' and being influenced by DH. In reality I didn't want GB1 around my child because he was an unpredictable alcoholic with a history of violence towards me, who regularly smashed up his own home around his own DC when he felt a bit annoyed. I tried to just quietly not see him which should have been simple as he lived a few hours away but my parents were determined that he should stay with me for an extended time whilst I was on maternity leave 'to help him cut down and recover'. My refusal led to my parents alternating between shouting at me and barely speaking to me for months. Our family disagreements were covered up from most family friends etc but I know that Mum complained to and was supported by a group of aunts/uncles/cousins. They all knew about GB1s 'difficulties' but not one apparently thought it was worth calling me to see if I was OK or to even get my perspective despite some of them actually working in roles that involve child safeguarding. These are the same group of people who were only too quick to contact me about Mum's needs and will, no doubt, be in contact again to encourage me to be a bit nicer to GB2. When I went NC with GB1 I felt that I had to somehow try to make up for upsetting my parents and show the extended family that I was not an awful uncaring person. I see now that this was madness and I now have no respect for those who chose to look the other way and/or encourage me to feel I was in the wrong.

This is not your doing, this is the seeds that she has sown all grown. It’s her own fault, don’t carry that blame!

@formalwellies Yes, maybe when that guilt creeps in, it might help to remember her shouting at you for trying to protect yourself and your newborn baby from your abusive brother and then lying about you to your extended family? I don’t think this is strictly a “she created a monster” situation, I think she’s much more abusive herself than just another victim of your GBs.

@formalwellies its not your fault. Hugs.

I'd ask your adult DC to be the witnesses Eagle

It's not your fault Wellies. You'd have helped DM sell her house and go into a care home if she'd wanted to, then it would have been her decision who visited her. Instead she chose to be neglected by GB2, she had her narc reasons for that. Her reaping what she shows, both from the perspective of having created the monster and from the perspective of choosing to give him power over her, is in no way your fault or your responsibility. I'd walk away now. Trying to stick around at this point is effectively self-harming.

There's nothing much you can do about getting rid of your anger permanently Must. You can see a counsellor regularly or practice self-help daily to try to mitigate the effects of it all on your health and your life, but the anger will keep coming back because you're still in the situation that's causing it. I can't see the anger ending unless you go NC and your DC, so there's no influence on them which will in turn affect your life. There aren't any alternative ways of looking at it all that means you'll not be angry, because that would require gaslighting yourself that everyone is reasonable and everything is fine. You're angry for good reasons, it's totally justified. Reframing your thoughts and positive thinking only works for irrational thoughts ie things that aren't true. When the reasons for your anger are justified, you can't think it away, you have to process it and when you choose to remain in the situation that's causing it, it's going to keep recurring no matter how much processing you do. There are no magic solutions that will fix everything. So if you're not going to change anything on a practical level then you're looking at ramping up your self-care, increasing your coping strategies and reducing your stress from other sources, to help you be better able to tolerate this situation with your extended family.

@Eeriefairy I think this is the crux of what I grapple with. Whenever there has been no tension between me and the boys she has been perfectly pleasant and we have had some good times. But there has so often been that tension because she always saw me as someone who should be stepping in to help them and putting what they wanted before my own needs. I can see that her family was terribly dysfunctional too (her mother was very ill and she was very much parentified as the oldest and a girl). I think in many ways she learned from a young age to put up with a lot to protect the family image and look after her brothers so it seems unreasonable to her that I won't take on the same role. In my younger days I firmly believed that she was a wonderful parent but dealing with very stressful and difficult situations because of the boys' behaviour/addictions etc. Having children of my own has made me realise that whatever her background I can't understand how or why she would have felt justified in essentially sacrificing my wellbeing (and later that of my DC) for the sake of what the boys wanted and projecting an image of a wonderful family.

@formalwellies I have the same trouble in all honesty. I feel like my mum was “pushed over” by my dad and my sister seemed to need more, so of course she expected me (the “responsible one”) to help keep the others (and therefore “the family”) happy and supported. But I have to face the question: why didn’t she see my needs as being as important as the others? It hurts that I was pushed aside and left to struggle in order to “put up and shut up” to keep the status quo. And in my case, I wasn’t being violently abused by bigger brothers. I know I wouldn’t do it, so why am I going to pretend it’s ok that she did it?

Im jumping on this thread because its my birthday tomorrow. My mum has just text me a sickly sweet message asking if she can "pop round" at 1:30.

I don't want her to. I won't go into all the many many reasons why. But I just don't want to spend time with her tomorrow.

Im autistic and find birthdays awkward as it is. I haven't made firm plans for tomorrow because I want to just see how I feel.

Now I feel like I need to escape my home and garden for the day and make plans purely to avoid hosting my mother and then no doubt ferrying her home too.

What would you do? How would you respond? At the moment im considering saying Im out for the day/have plans.