August 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have started a new thread as the other one is now full.

@Eeriefairy I'm sure it's all part of the playbook and they feel somehow it gets them off the hook if/when just telling you you are wrong isn't working. I'm so sorry to hear that you've been through this and that they made you feel so desperate.
I will truly never understand how they can rewrite history so blatantly. When GB1 was at his worst and I was attempting to explain why I did not want him near my child my parents and GB1 asked for specific examples of things he had done that were 'so bad'. I gave them numerous examples, some with specific dates (because he always enjoyed ruining a celebration/occasion) and all where they had all seen it happen and/or seen the aftermath. They found 'reasons' for a couple of examples but point blank denied any knowledge of the others. They all claimed that they hadn't seen anything and I hadn't even mentioned it at the time. GB2 also denied nasty things GB1 had done towards him. I don't know if they actually change their memories of these things to bury anything that doesn't match their narrative, or if it's more sinister than that and they have actually colluded to keep quiet so that if I try to tell anyone I seem like a liar. I'm past caring really now. I know the truth about all of them and my DH/DC (now young adults) believe me.

@formalwellies Yes, I have wondered whether they actually misremember things or are just lying - it’s very difficult to know, but I suppose the result is the same, so it doesn’t really matter.

My MiL invented a “memory loss condition” to get out of having to explain or apologise for any of the stuff in my DH’s childhood that she doesn’t want to have to apologise for. She regularly talks about what they were like as kids, how they misbehaved - whatever she thinks paints them in a bad light. Then they’ll say something she did and she’ll say “I only have 20% of my memories from that time” - no idea where she’s got that figure from either.

I think in her case it’s so obvious she remembers everything except her own shitty behaviour that it’s impossible to believe she isn’t just lying. With my parents it’s harder to say. Is it some kind of cognitive dissonance? Like “your GB wouldn’t do that therefore my brain has not allowed me to remember that happening” or are they well aware and it’s just an act? I think, personally, that even if they can’t remember it, they are so biased towards their chosen beliefs about their son (and specifically favouring him over you), that if it is their brain stopping them from seeing/accepting it, it isn’t any better than if it were an act.

I don’t think they mis-remember or forget or lie. Our brains interpret information and they interpret it in the way they do. It’s like someone being colour blind I think. If they interpret green as yellow then this is how they see it. That’s why there is no point arguing because to them they are entirely right and you are the wrong one.

It is crazy to think that there are people out there with versions of us in their heads so wildly different to who we are.

Not so crazy when you grow up with it ;). I still think in the first instance that new people see me differently from who I really am. That is my default. I always assume that one day they are going to find out the real me and leave .. (or stay and then I can relax a bit)

Omg this is so me. I am undiagnosed but something isn’t right 😂 my kids diagnosed ND so I’m pretty sure I am. I have tried to be someone else for so long the real me is a bit scared to come out. She is a bit weird and she doesn’t fit into any boxes. I always anticipate people will just think she’s a bit of a freak and disappear. I think half the problem with my marriage was because I was trying to be someone I wasn’t to be loved by him. I catch myself doing it all the time because I’m fed up of being rejected. I have come to the conclusion it’s best to be authentic and on your own then fake because it’s too hard to sustain.

@MustIgo @Mywhitedress I understand what you mean. I too have always felt I need to be very careful how I am seen by others. I know most people will do that to some extent but I have recognised that my instinct is to be very careful about expressing even quite inconsequential opinions/preferences etc (eg. whether I like a TV show, where I want to go to eat) before checking what others say/do. I can see that it could be a ND trait, but in my case I suspect it's more about having been brought up feeling that I must be careful to 'keep up appearances' outside the home and at the same time feeling that saying/doing/being the wrong thing can be unsafe. It's something I'm working on all the time, and I know it sounds insane to most people but even now I am often slightly surprised when am just myself as a fully grown adult and no one shouts me down/hits me or ridicules me. I am currently making a point of doing small things that I know younger me would have been worried would become a problem or seem 'show-offy' eg. wearing bright nail varnish for no reason other than I feel like it, being the first to suggest a restaurant that suits what I like (not second guessing what everyone else likes or waiting for someone else to suggest), buying the brightly coloured version of an everyday thing etc. I can very much recommend it! (I'm lucky that DH does not have the same issue, has always been unapologetically himself and encourages me to do the same. It feels much safer being my authentic self knowing I have at least one person in my corner)

Have any of you ever looked into the overlap between the symptoms of trauma and the symptoms of ND?

I did this when my eldest DD was younger as she had some symptoms and wasn’t sure what help she might need. A friend of a friend who I was speaking to who was a child psychologist told me to look into it (DD had a traumatic birth) and when I did I found that was actually what it was.

I think given the reason we’re all here, it’s possible?

I have been looking into this. I didn’t have a narc childhood but with my mum being ill I didn’t get the nervous system soothing regulation that I needed. I’m sure that’s given me similar symptoms. I have no real idea how to regulate myself with people and learned to heavily control, people please etc, which is what attracted my narc ex I believe. I did what I did best and disassociated and tried to control the situation. I think this is one of the major issues with parents who aren’t present for a child. The child doesn’t learn how to self sooth healthy, they learn that people aren’t supposed to help and we supposed to do it alone. I think it explains my current partners hoarding. His parents are absolutely selfish and left him and his brother to regulate alone. My partner regulates by hoarding and feeling safe with his things. I believe I was ND and always would have been. What I have on top of this is the trauma of dealing with it alone. I have zero self soothing abilities really (well I’m learning).

What’s crazy is how close we are to being just like them. We have similar childhoods. But why are we not narcs?

@formalwellies that is so great that your husband makes you feel safe enough to be more your authentic self. A good example helps, doesn't it, as well? I, too, am taking little steps to be more myself with others, and I also do the colourful items thing! I can see that if you're ND, that would be another reason to be careful. In my case, it is the fact that they put labels on me at home that didn't make sense. And then berated me for acting like those labels (which never felt like me in the first place, so very confusing). Too reserved (or as they called it: 'antisocial', which was actually me having shut down because of my parents' behaviour), but at the same time whenever I dared be myself, I was 'too loud' or exuberant or attention-seeking (when I was just singing or being expressive, or even trying to talk to them about something).
My mum was always cross with me for either one or the other, and by extension dad, because I upset mum. So I don’t even know what people will see me as, I just instinctively assume it won't be me as a person. People will have their labels ready for me. I constantly try not to be too exuberant, but at the same time not too reserved! My DH and DD love all of me, and that helps so much. It is just unnerving when somebody I don’t know well, sees me for who I am. It feels very vulnerable, even though I know by now that they are the good ones, so I do try and keep going with the 'being me'.

The irony is, and that made it partly so confusing, is that actually it is mum and golden sister that are the most reserved and antisocial (selfish) ones. And it was mum (still is) who embarrassed herself with her behaviour in public, but of course they put their shame and difficulties onto the scapegoat, so it makes sense now. I am really trying to trust that other people can see that not liking parties does not equal antisocial, and that me being happy or excited is just that. Singing in a choir helped, I was allowed to have fun, which was eye opening ! Also typical that my mum couldn't bear to look at videos of choir that I tried to show her (and not because it sounded or looked terrible , as it was actually a great choir). I think she didn't like to see me happy in my own life (maybe jealous?), and it didn't fit with her narrative of there being something wrong with me. She always complains that I don't let her into my life! I wonder why that is! Anyway, this turned into a rant, sorry!

@Mywhitedress No need to apologise- rant away! We all know that sometimes it helps keep us sane.
I had a similar issue with being labelled as 'too quiet', 'too serious', 'boring'. The 'too quiet' label was also a theme at school. Every single school report said something along the lines of 'Wellies is very clever but needs to speak up more in class' or the amazingly helpful 'Wellies is very capable but needs to be more confident' (with absolutely zero discussion in school about why I might lack confidence or how they could help be build some confidence).
At home my parents told me I should be 'good'/work hard at school/not make a fuss/not be difficult etc, put a lot of pressure on me to achieve at school and be the 'good girl' and were quite controlling about where I went, who I was with, what I wore etc. Yet they also allowed by brothers to laugh about me being 'boring' etc and praised other people (cousins etc) for being 'fun', 'interesting' etc when they did things that I would not have been permitted to do. If I did try to be more 'interesting', or even just voiced opinions that didn't fit with theirs or showed an interest in doing something for fun I was labelled an 'attention seeker' and often ridiculed or punished. Things I did do for fun were badged as 'frivolous' and there was an underlying suggestion that I should be doing something more worthy/useful instead. This still continues even now- how dare I go out with friends then say I don't have time to help with GB2's childcare!

I feel very strongly that there is still a lot more that could/should be done as a society to notice when things are not OK in a middle class sort of home. Since I was achieving academically and my family were 'nice' no one at school ever so much as asked if everything was OK at home. Me being 'too quiet' 'competent but not confident' didn't prompt any questions, I was obviously just studious and maybe a bit awkward. Even very obvious bruises were never to my knowledge questioned- I assume because obviously the studious awkward kid is just clumsy (and GB1 was always careful not to hit me in the face so the bruises were not on show all the time).

@Eeriefairy I haven't looked into this as such, but I know that trauma can cause symptoms and behaviour that may also be seen in adhd or autism.The chronic nervous system overload caused by traumatic circumstances can show as sensory sensitivities, attention issues, emotional dysregulation, social issues etc. Is that what you meant? Apparently symptoms can disappear or get better with trauma therapy, but would not disappear if it is neurodivergence. Then you can only learn how to deal with it. That's what I've understood anyway, happy to be corrected!

@formalwellies thank you, I don’t like to moan, but it does help! It sounds like you never stood a chance in your family and the way the pattern continues. I got the 'should speak up more' too. I am sure I would have if I had trusted people to be interested in what I had to say. I enjoyed speaking up as soon as I started higher education and was away from my old town. I agree, it is shocking really that so little is noticed or not taken seriously in the quiet children. They are just no bother to teachers, so no need. Unfortunately that still continues, and is the same for working class really, although maybe a bit more awareness. The bruises is hopefully better these days, but I do think many people find it hard to imagine abuse is real, in 'normal' families. Also in teenagers, easy to blame it all on puberty.

@Mywhitedress yes! Very much that. I read re my DD that because it’s the actual brain, ND would be pretty much all the time, not something that would come and go - eg if she was struggling with transitions it would be every time. If it wasn’t every time it was likely a trauma response. So working on making her feel safe and giving her space for her emotions has really helped and I had forgotten recently that I had ever even thought she might have any ND.

I often think this might be what’s going on with people who have “tendencies” or “traits” as they say. It isn’t necessarily anything insidious - like I said in my case, it was a traumatic birth and a serious illness in her early life. But then if you don’t deliberately work on healing from it (which none of our parents would have) then it won’t get better, and if it’s responded to negatively it might even get sort of compounded as you grow up.

If an insecure person has a completely different set of needs from a relationship is there and point having any kind of relationship at all as a person who isn’t insecure? They will have expectations from you and needs?

I feel terrible saying that as I was once very insecure and I absolutely needed people to like me. I find the majority of people need something from you. I used to look at confident people and think they were up to something but actually they just being themselves. I thought you needed stuff to be confident, money, power but you don’t need anything other than a positive voice about yourself. I thought confident people never made mistakes but they do they just move on. I think the loudest flashiest people are actually the most insecure. All this time trying to form relationships with people thinking they think like you and they want friendship etc and secretly they haters. I thought confident people were the ones to watch but it’s actually the insecure. It’s wild how insecure people are.

@MustIgo I think I agree with you. If these narcissists for example were just actually happy with themselves and their lives they’d never have to try and control other people or drag them down. It’s another thing they talk about with abusive men. They seem all vulnerable and worried you’ll leave them, so you reassure them but they’re so insecure they get jealous of any little interaction and then they have to control you so they don’t have to deal with their jealousy etc. if they were just happy and secure they’d just treat you well and expect to be treated well and that’s how it should be.

So because of this is there any point at all having any kind of relationship? If it wasn’t for the fact they were family you’d not really go anywhere near them, I know I’d never be attracted to my partners family. I just wanted to have that family feel without actually really acknowledging who they are. When you acknowledge what they are is there any point? I really wanted my kids to have a relationship but I feel this no longer has any appeal. It really appealed to me to be accepted but it’s funny because it’s just disappearing. I am always going to trigger these women because of who I am, because I’m authentic all the time. With my asd I’m extremely genuine (to a fault) I can’t do fake, I’ve no intentions of and because it’s classed as wrong in my brain I can’t do it. But I’m not insecure with my authenticity either and I also class everyone as equal, I struggle with hierarchy, don’t believe anyone is better. Im destined to rub these up the wrong way. My ex used to get so mad with me because I wouldn’t “worship” him…no matter what he tried. Pattern recognition means that to me they are too obvious. It’s funny how you get to a point where no matter how shiny and how appealing it looks you no longer want it.

@MustIgo There’s probably not any point trying to have a relationship in the circumstances you’re describing. If it’s important to your DH that you “play nice” with them, you can do that without trying to have an actual relationship. If it’s not important to him, or you think that contact is actually harming you or your DC, you can withdraw from them altogether.

There has never been one moment that I have regretted going NC with my MiL. My DH completely understands and supports this decision though, so it hasn’t resulted in conflict with him. I know your situation is not exactly the same in that regard, so you might have to discuss it and see where he stands on it all and make your case if that’s what you want.

She is always going to position me, she is never going to ever care so there will never be anything? It’s odd to know what to do with the love, because I’ve love to give but nowhere to put it. It’s an odd situation. Is she dangerous? Is she safe for my kids? I mean at a distance she does parade them, they enjoy the day out then that’s that. I can’t control whether they like her because the reality is too complex for them to ever understand. She isn’t nasty to them, she doesn’t have enough influence to change them. I don’t listen to her parenting advice. Is it safe for them? I can’t figure it out because she is not a safe person to attach to but she is safe to take them for a day out?

Basically is the grandparent a safe enough distance? They aren’t her primary carer is that enough of a distance to protect them?

Is this grandparent emotionally safe to be around your kids or you?. If she parades them about it could be argued no .

I’m not really sure how to gage this? They aren’t a threat to her so at the moment I couldn’t say she was unsafe. But the reason I say this is because I DON’T follow their advice (eg they don’t need after school
clubs, they don’t need friends, they don’t need birthday parties etc). I am not raising them to be insecure, not planting this weird hatred of humans in their heads and that comparison nonsense, I’m not image conscious etc. I don’t know them well enough or have had enough experience to see how they respond to one of their grandkids emotional needs. I know I can’t change them, I don’t want to be accepted by them and I know I am a threat to the mother especially. But that’s me. If they undermined me in front of them I will challenge them. I am enough aren’t I because the damage comes from me trying to please them and adopt their crappy dysfunctional styles that I don’t? I feel the damaged kids are the golden child’s because the parents already passed on the teaching, the kids already have such a distrust of humans, they can’t make friends and that’s so so sad.

My worry is that they get recruited. Somehow they decide they want their Nannie’s love and and attention and they start to copy the “image” is everything motto to fit in. I want them to actually notice that they aren’t very present in their lives but they want people to think they are.