20 years together & now zero intimacy.

[HumsWhileHePees]

Guys,

I’ll try & not elongate this & keep it short.
partner & I have been together 20 years, together since 16 childhood sweethearts. We’re now both 36. 2 gorgeous kids & overall a fantastic relationship. It’s built on trust, loyalty & honesty & an a great fairly balanced home life.

there’s 1 issue though that’s seems to be putting a little strain on things is our intimacy… I’m talking within the last 6 years possibly 3 maybe 4 times 5 absolutely maximum. 2 of which our kids were conceived.
I have not put any pressure at all on her. My youngest is 2 & we haven’t had sex since his conception.

we have had chats were I state that I miss that side of the relationship & at first she said that she was scared of getting pregnant again as two kids is hard enough. I agreed & I got a vasectomy…. Unfortunately nothing changed.
I don’t want to keep trying it on as I’m getting a little bit dejected when she says she’s tired etc.

our last chat 10 weeks ago she said that due to her having the kids all day while I’m at work. Sex is the last thing on her mind. Fair enough, it is hard I agree.

however, on Saturday attended a wedding out in the Cotswolds, full spa treatment for her in the day, beautiful day - few glasses of wine, come the end of the night.

nothing. She just turned over & doom scrolled TikTok.

she couldn’t have been ‘tired’
first child free night in two years.
just rolled over.

I honestly could’ve cried on the drive on the way back home on Sunday.

we’ve been together 16 years & although I don’t think sex is the be all & end all.
I do think it’s an important part.

as my friend said “you may as well live your sister at this point”

where do I go with this? I love her & love my little family life but she has zero interest in sex. Zero.
I don’t want to think that I’m going to go
My whole life without sex.

More drivel.

I can relate to your partner. I just never really enjoyed sex much. Once the procreation bit was done there wasn't much point. I'd do it to make my partner happy but that became soul destroying.

I also hated the knowledge that a hotel stay meant I was expected to have sex. It wasn't some amazing treat for me - I'd appreciate him doing all meal planning for a week over a spa treatment.

Finally sex wasn't how I showed love. But my partner thought lack of sex meant lack of love. He ended up finding someone else, and now I don't have to agree to sex that I've no interest in to avoid a argument.

Sorry OP I guess my advice would be, make sure she has time to be her, not just mum and wife. When your identity is all about service to others, sex becomes another chore for someone else's benefit.

@HumsWhileHePees Unfortunately this is way more common than you think, i have no useful advice for you i’m afraid as i haven’t been able to fix intimacy in my relationship either, i think there could be so many reasons why it happens but unless your partner is open and honest about the reasons behind it you really don’t stand a chance, you can’t fix something unless you know what you’re fixing and sometimes there is no fix.

I don’t know what to say to make you feel any better, sometimes you might have to make sacrifices to keep the family unit together but it’s really hard, trust me i know, the grass isn’t always greener on the other side either, imagine jumping ship and being in a relationship powered by short term lust only to find out the rest of the relationship is shit, you’d be kicking yourself knowing what you gave up, so i’ll just say, i feel your pain my friend 😞

Christ thats awful.. Lazy git who only cared about his own pleasure

Fuck me.. there are some seriously weird women on here that seem to think that sex 5 times in 6 years in a marriage is perfectly ok - to another who is a full on misandrist , horrified that a man could ever want to fuck his partner without making it some grand plan of the patriarchy.

You both sound like you a. hate men . b. hate sex and c. Have never enjoyed a long mutually satisfying sexual relationship. Which makes me feel your lived life experience is not really going to furnish you with the skills or empathy to advise the OP in any positive way.
probably best to scroll on by.

Harsh

Man Hater!

The baleful one here is you. You're stamping about calling people man haters ffs, AND you were unnecessarily unkind to@AlmostAJillSandwich, who described a rather horrendous situation where her partner was having sex on her body without the slightest care for her pleasure or agreement.

You seem very exercised at the idea that men are often shit partners and they often come here whingeing about lack of sex, and women here are SICK of it.

And people HAVE made comments that suggest OP's wife owes him sex in this thread:

"Most 36 years olds, in a romantic relationship, would not be remotely satisfied with having sex around once every 18 months in the last 5 years."

That was yours, I believe. Ergo, you think you are owed sex. I mean, if that's all that counts to you, fine. I suppose that when your partner is struck with illness or depression or age or exhaustion because they're in the middle of kids/life, you'll be fine leaving for new dick/pussy. For most people, real relationships involve much much more than sex.

Lets see what else there is.

"some people have very low sex drives, yiur wife could be one of those. I would talk to her to see if she’s willing to see a doctor as coukd potentially be something hormonal that can be looked at. "

Why didnt this PP suggest that OP take androgen blockers? Then he's freed of his lust, right? Why does OP's wife have to be medicated?

"Anything you do will never be enough, and she clearly couldn't care less about your happiness."

This one is clearly seeing OP's wife as a meanie who is withholding access to her vagina.

"I think it’s highly unfair of her to expect you to stay in a sexless marriage "

Hmmm, *unfair, that means that OP took something away that belongs to OP. ie her vagina.

"There are so many women on here who think it’s perfectly reasonable to ‘retire’ from sex when they’re still comparatively young, and expect their partners to accept it without complaint."

Another one who thinks OP's wife should be fucking as often as OP wants. The audacity of telling women how often they should fuck.

"I think you’ve been very patient tbh"

Yes, goddamn it, OP's wife is a shitty bitch who has deliberately taken away her pussy, just because she's a meanie.

These are ALL angry rapey attitudes that have no understanding that NO ONE IS OWED SEX.

Could be that the one night she knew she could have a completely undisturbed night of good sleep was bliss to her and not a reflection on you that she didn't want or even think of sex.
Maybe her body has changed since she's had the children and has lost her confidence or is just so exhausted by constant childcare that she's just not up for it.
Or a million other reasons. Sometimes people's sex drives are compatible. Whatever the reason, she needs to be fair to you by being honest as to why even if it might be hard to hear.
As someone else said, do you give her hugs and kisses but without it being an expecting of it leading to sex. Do you just hold her hand whilst walking or sit cuddling on the sofa together?
You could try getting a babysitter and taking her on a date and try getting her to open up. Lay your cards on table. Tell her how seriously it is affecting you but mainly you'd just like her to tell you how she sees this working in the future?
The toddler stage is hard work. Once at school, this eases a bit and so it may change but it might not.
The other way is via marriage counselling but there's no point in purring that as an ultimatum but just a suggestion. Would be even better if she put it forward as a.suggestion. Ask her what would fix this. Good luck.

You're arguing against positions that people haven't actually taken.

I have said repeatedly that OP's wife does not owe him sex, and that she never has to have sex with him again if she doesn't want to. That's the opposite of supporting coercion.

What I have said is that it's entirely understandable for someone to be unhappy in a marriage where they've had sex five times in six years. Those are two completely different propositions.

No one owes anyone sex. Equally, no one owes anyone a lifelong relationship regardless of whether their needs are being met. Both partners are free to decide whether the relationship still works for them.

As for suggesting someone might speak to a doctor, if a person's libido changes dramatically and it's causing distress within the relationship, that's a perfectly ordinary suggestion. It's no different from investigating pain, depression, menopause, low testosterone, medication side effects or any other health issue. It's not "medicating women into compliance".

Finally, accusing anyone who thinks sexual compatibility matters of having "rapey attitudes" is an extraordinarily serious allegation. Disagree with people's views if you like, but don't invent positions they haven't expressed.

Hi OP,
As so often happens on MN, this thread has descended into people arguing with each other. Just ignore any posts that don't seem helpful to you.

Couples therapy seems like the best idea. If it doesn't work out with the first counsellor, try again with another one: finding a good counsellor can be a bit hit and miss.

I don't think and didn't say that she owes him sex..She can withold sex if she wants.

However, I think the relationship has broken down and is not likely to recover if she doesn't want sex. So the OP, ( whether male or female), needs help with finding a solution, if they are to stay married. I would give exactly the same response if a woman was not having sex in the marriage.

Frankly that sounds brutally shit. I would be seriously close to calling it a day. You need a serious talk. Probably counselling. You really need her to be honest about why she doesn’t want sex.

@VestibuleWeaver thanks for your post above which sums up that user precisely. They, ( clearly she), is indeed inventing positions that posters have not expressed..Spot on
.

So she told you that her concern was pregnancy so you had a vasectomy and it turns out this wasn’t the issue…

I’m assuming that the vasectomy was discussed with her in advance?

That really sound like a serious issue. If she just has no interest in sex leading someone to undertake a unnecessary medical procedure is not a good sign.

When ever I see these scenarios it sounds like the “hope” is killing who every is holding on. I have suggested to others (where there is space) moving out of a shared room. She won’t feel the same pressure and you are not likely to have any vague hope each night. If that works you may find it can also work for how to sperate while maintaining a home for the kids.

You should do couples counselling but I would also before that point work out what all the options are for the longer term. Look at the costs of operating two households. Research if sharing a home but being agreed you are separated could work. You are not a couple, you are cohabiting friends with legal and logistical ties, you may not want to see that but it is the case. If you don’t know the options and what is involved you can’t properly consider them.

How old are your children? The logistics of separating differ depending on age.

Another one of these “you’re coercive if you discuss before leaving” responses.

Just think that one through. If you just leave with no explanation given that is quite shitty behaviour. Yet in your world if he tells her his reason he is coercive. This is bonkers. The only options are not “live with it or leave” as some basic experience of the world would tell you.

We would all hope that our partners would engage in discussion with us like adults before dropping us and leaving. If you complain that knowing that your partner is not satisfied in a sexless relationship is being a “sex pest” then you are simply throwing a tantrum. It may be an uncomfortable conversation knowing that the relationship may have run its course, but it is required. She may be fine with his seeking sex elsewhere, she may want to gradually transition to an end of the relationship or she may want to investigate factors that are impacting her interest. But she has the right and the responsibility to be engaged with (and to engage) like an adult. You would have her treated like a child who can’t handle a difficult conversation, and end up being deprived of the truth or any input to the outcome.

She doesn’t fancy you anymore. If she met someone new she’d be swinging from the chandeliers. I’m not saying that to be mean, I think it happens most of the time. You deserve to be found attractive

There were intimacy issues in your marriage even before you had children @HumsWhileHePees, what were those?

Could be useful to start there.

You are simply inventing positions and applying them to others.

“For most people, real relationships involve much much more than sex.”

And most romantic relationships have a sexual element. My bread includes much much more than yeast but without it I would throw it away.

“Why didnt this PP suggest that OP take androgen blockers? Then he's freed of his lust, right? Why does OP's wife have to be medicated?”

Well for a start PP didn’t say the wife should be medicated, so you are making thigs up there. But more importantly when people say medical issues should be investigated that is because they are looking to see if something is wrong and the wife may have a medical problem. Androgen blockers used in this way are not being used to make an unhealthy person well they are being used to make an healthy person behave unnaturally.

“This one is clearly seeing OP's wife as a meanie who is withholding access to her vagina.”

The biggest issues here is that the wife has not had an honest conversation, to the extent she was happy for him to go through with an unnecessary medical procedure which did not address what her concern was. Not having sex with someone when they want to and you don’t is normal but unfortunate for the disappointed party, misleading someone in to a medical procedure is rather more than being a “meanie” and something that would make me distance myself from someone.

“These are ALL angry rapey attitudes that have no understanding that NO ONE IS OWED SEX.”

You have supported controlling someone else’s sexuality by refusing to have sex but also preventing them from seeking it elsewhere, you have advocated giving medication not non-medical reasons to produce unhealthy outcomes, you ignore misleading someone so they undergo unnecessary medical procedures and you dress all this up with calling other people “rapey.”

You sound like a highly abusive person. You clearly need to take some time and look at the sort of person you are and the type of behaviour you support while lying about what others have said, and hiding behind name calling. Learn to be a better person.

i am really sorry OP, it sounds like you are having a difficult time.

a perspective from the other side and from my experience as a mother to multiple toddlers. It is very difficult to connect to one’s erotic self when you are in the trenches with little children. That makes it hard to connect with one’s partner sexually. It is so hard to even feel like a desirable woman that one once was. Giving birth and breastfeeding can make us literally feel like a milk cow.

it take a lot of work to recover back our erotic selves as mothers. Or at least for me. I did it because I did not want to loose it and I tried to keep it alive so I would not lose this part of myself.

try to talk to her…and try to listen

100% agree with this.

People who think you can have a normal, healthy relationship when you don't have sex are deluded. You can't. Fine if you're asexual or if you live in a monastery, but otherwise no, you cant. It's dead in the water.

Definitely agree with this, I remember that time well. But the OP hasn't said what their sex life was like before DC. It may be that it was dwindling well before the first pregnancy, in which case, things are more complicated.

This poster ruins every thread they post in with this drivel, wading into any thread where a man is mentioned in connection with sex calling the man a rapist.

You can’t make someone want to have sex if they don’t want to 🤷🏻 in reality your options are limited to 2

shut up and suck it up

Get a divorce and find other people to have sex with

you don’t need to stay married and be celibate- your choice

Well, I do consider being a rapist something serious that should not be devalued by people throwing it around as an insult. If you disagree, fine, but that doesn’t change my opinion.

You call it drivel, yet you don’t try and address any of the point made.

Should people lie about what others have said? Is that acceptable? There were multiple posts saying responding “I didn’t say that” but addressing those lies bothers you…

As for suggesting people should not be facilitating other people having unnecessary or harmful medical treatment, I’m sorry that position offends you but it is a fairly regular position.

If you think criticising lies and really weird behaviour “ruins” a thread I think you may want to explain why?