Can anyone help? In doom loop of conversations with partner

[friendlytotheend]

I’m looking for constructive advice please if anyone has these skills at all.

For background, he’s not very emotionally intelligent, not autistic or on the spectrum in any way. He’s just very very pig headed sometimes.

When communicating with my partner of 20 years, he will never listen or try to understand what I’m saying to him but instead retort with blame on me.

we then enter a doom loop that goes a bit like this….

me “I’m not very happy”
him “well I’M not very happy”

me “I’m sad”
him “well I’M sad”

me “I’m working too hard”
him “well I’M working too hard”

me”you hurt me when you…..”
him “well you hurt ME when you…”

me”can we try and make a bit more effort”
him “well can YOu try and make a bit more effort”

etc etc
every time I try and express myself even with a small innocuous thing that is by no way meant with any blame, it gets blocked. Theres no attempt to understand why I’m saying what I’m saying- it’s an outright block, as though he’s telling me he doesn’t want to hear it, and I should keep my mouth shut.

I’m tired of it all and wondered if there was a better way I can phrase my words to get through to a little bit of understanding.

any ideas?

OP please stop conflating autism with a lack of emotional intelligence. You've set up a false dichotomy there in 'he's not autistic just pig headed'. You're not one or the other. Just rude.

He does sound immature. Sadly you can't usually fix this if he's made it to adulthood and is still acting like a child.

You seem to be asking for ideas of how you can change him from the man he is. You can’t. So you have to look at what you can do. your starting point can be to think about whether this relationship makes you happy.

You seem to be asking how you can change him into someone who is kind, respectful and loving

YOU can't. HE can.....should he want to change

My guess is that he has zero desire to change

I'm also guessing that if he agreed to couples counselling the therapist might tell you privately to get out of the relationship (this happened to my cousin)

Doesn’t look like there is anything constructive in what you are telling him, what do you want him to do with the statement “I’m sad?” He’s automatically getting defensive as you are implying it’s due to him.

instead, tell him what you want. E.g. “I feel we’re disconnected, let’s go to that lovely restaurant.” In my experience, men want actionable / clear dialogue on what you are expecting, rather than trying to guess

I think op just intended to preempt the "could he be autistic" questions which are inevitable in this type of thread.

. Op I agree with the above posters, he doesn't WANT to listen.

When to usay you're sad, and he says HE'S sad, what happens next? Is there space for yo uto rey well I'm sad because X, why are you sad? Or similar? Like kinda push through the resistance?

It sounds like attack as a form of defence, which is a kind of emotional immaturity.

I used to be bad for doing this, as I think I learned bad emotional/relationship habits growing up. Maybe the same is true for your partner. It's ingrained behaviour so it took a long time to recognise and fight the urge to do it.

It's tough but your partner would benefit from recognising and addressing the behaviour to enable mature conversations about your relationship.

I think you would benefit from couples counselling OP. A good counsellor should be able to help you communicate more effectively. If he's a good partner in other ways I would certainly try that before giving up.

Autistic people are often highly emotionally intelligent by the way.

I agree that you need a third party to lead the communication. Couples counselling?

Sounds like he's not interested in how you're feeling and sees anything you say as a criticism against him. What is your situation, OP? Could you leave?

You're in a doom loop? Well I'm in a doom loop...

You can't change him by phrasing things differently.
Is this a new thing for him or has it always been like this and you can't take it any more?

Honestly I'd have left after a week of this as I can't think of anything worse than trying to have a conversation with someone who refuses to engage.

What else is going on? Would you prefer to leave him and not have this problem?

Yup, I often think it’s because we have to make so much effort to understand others. We literally have to be emotionally intelligent to function in society on any level - those of us who can, of course.

My ex was exactly the same, he is autistic btw.

Start with a question. Like how are you feeling or - this is quite an irritating way of putting it but it kind of works - What's happening in Duncan-land? (Use his name obviously).

Or ask him for advice like I'm working too much what shall I do?

To be fair to him it is difficult to know what to say if someone just tells you they're sad. But of course these questions should lead to a conversation where you get to say your thing too.

You could try by beginning with a reason for whatever it is you wish to raise before he comes back with his comment. So start with 'l'm not happy because' ..state the reason briefly and ask him if he can help you with it. If he still stonewalls or reflects it back at you then couples counselling is worth a try so that a neutral third party can teach you both how to communicate more effectively.

My DH used to do this when we first got together (we were very young!). After a few frustrating conversations, I took this tack:

Me: Can we talk about x that happened yesterday, I’m a bit upset about it.

Him: Well I’m upset about y..

Me: Ok we can talk about that in a moment then, but for now I’ve asked that we talk about x.

Him: Oh, sorry yes go ahead.

That’s literally all it took. He needed a few reminders in the next couple of years but essentially we cracked it very quickly. In DH’s case it was a learned behaviour from his dad who treated every issue that someone wasn’t happy about as a personal attack. It’s deflecting so you don’t have to address your own shortcomings. When I showed DH that I was willing to listen to things that I needed to deal with and that these things are better discussed in a calm way where each person owns their own wrongdoing or thoughtlessness he got the hang of it. DH felt like he had to ‘land grab’ to make sure he wasn’t left on the back foot when we had conflict but when he got used to the fact that I was willing to hear him out and that this was a matter of making our relationship better and not point scoring things got significantly better. 37 years on he’s absolutely amazing at conflict resolution and has been for years and years.

Just to add, this approach will only work if your bf genuinely wants an adult relationship. If he’s only interested in his own side of things you probably won’t get anywhere.

This does sound like a situation where couples counselling could make a real difference.

Does he ever start off these conversations himself and how does he do it?

you “I’m not very happy”
him “well I’M not very happy”
you "okay, can we talk about both those things?"

@friendlytotheend you carefully wording things differently isn't going to make him listen or hear what you are saying. If someone isn't interested in hearing what someone else has to say then it doesn't matter how cunningly you word it, they are still not going to hear it.

You have said it yourself "theres no attempt to understand why I’m saying what I’m saying- it’s an outright block, as though he’s telling me he doesn’t want to hear it, and I should keep my mouth shut."

There are some useful techniques from other posters, but if your DP is as pig-headed as you say he is, I'm not entirely sure that these tactics will work on him, as they do require some attempt at listening.

If you really want to stay with him because he brings lots to the relationship in other ways, then it might be worth couples counselling to see if he can afford you enough respect & courtesy to listen to what you have to say.

Have you pointed this out to him? What did he say?

What happens is that by me trying to tell him I have a problem ends up with me being responsible and taking all the blame, it’s always my fault. He would never apologise for anything, he just doesn’t have it in him.

Any decision we’ve made as a family rests at my feet if it goes wrong, it would be my fault if we split up, I would be the one hurting the children, I would be the one that had embarrassed him.

I find it difficult and confusing to deal with.

In all likelihood we will probably separate but it would be good to understand if there’s any way I can have better conversations with him regardless.

Sorry - my bad totally. Apologies.

He is showing you through his words and actions who he is. He is showing you that he will not be held accountable, that he will blame you, that he will not listen to you, that you will always be the one who is wrong in his relationship with you.

What do you get out of this relationship? Can you remember what attracted you to him in the first place? Was he ever a good communicator or attentive to your needs?

I mean I'm sure it is possible to have better conversations but you can't have a better conversation on your own because a conversation takes 2 people so he would have to want to have a proper conversation too.

The question approach I posted up thread is a good technique for my uncommunicative teenagers. For some reason I assumed your relationship was a newish one with no kids and you just hadn't learned to communicate with each other yet. Getting out of entrenched patterns like yours is easier with outside help - but both people have to want it.

What happens is that by me trying to tell him I have a problem ends up with me being responsible and taking all the blame, it’s always my fault. He would never apologise for anything, he just doesn’t have it in him.

And that’s the root of the issue. He’s deflecting because he doesn’t want to take responsibility for his own behaviour. The way to address it is to not respond to the deflection, so:

Him: Well I’m unhappy too.

You: Ok we will talk about that later but back to x

Him: But when you…

You: No. I’ve requested this discussion. It’s about x. We will deal with y later.

Him: But I’m so terribly unhappy and you don’t care.

You: Again we will talk about that later. You are choosing not to address my reasonable issue with x. We will come back to this when you are willing to engage properly.

Just don’t get drawn into his argument until you’ve addressed the thing you wanted to address. Don’t beg, don’t get upset, just coolly and calmly reiterate that you want to discuss it and when he is ready to do so like an adult you can. And then you will do the same with any issue that he has.

And remember that behaviour is a choice. Always. He does have it in him to apologise, he’s choosing not to so he doesn’t (in his eyes) have to concede ground to you. Fundamentally he’s seeing your relationship as a battle he has to win rather than a person to love.