Can anyone help? In doom loop of conversations with partner

[friendlytotheend]

I’m looking for constructive advice please if anyone has these skills at all.

For background, he’s not very emotionally intelligent, not autistic or on the spectrum in any way. He’s just very very pig headed sometimes.

When communicating with my partner of 20 years, he will never listen or try to understand what I’m saying to him but instead retort with blame on me.

we then enter a doom loop that goes a bit like this….

me “I’m not very happy”
him “well I’M not very happy”

me “I’m sad”
him “well I’M sad”

me “I’m working too hard”
him “well I’M working too hard”

me”you hurt me when you…..”
him “well you hurt ME when you…”

me”can we try and make a bit more effort”
him “well can YOu try and make a bit more effort”

etc etc
every time I try and express myself even with a small innocuous thing that is by no way meant with any blame, it gets blocked. Theres no attempt to understand why I’m saying what I’m saying- it’s an outright block, as though he’s telling me he doesn’t want to hear it, and I should keep my mouth shut.

I’m tired of it all and wondered if there was a better way I can phrase my words to get through to a little bit of understanding.

any ideas?

Sorry, the “I’m sad” was just an example, the point I was (badly) trying to make is that any attempt for me to tell him how I’m feeling or raising an issue with him gets spun round to me instantly.

it’s hard to explain.

Another example is that my hearing is very poor and he’s very aware. He mumbles really badly and when I can’t hear, it’s my fault, even though I may be in a different room when he’s trying to talk to me. If I miss what he says he will berate me which to me feels really unfair.

the point I’m making is about me having no agency or right to speak up.

the point I’m making is about me having no agency or right to speak up.

That's because you are with an abusive and controlling man. He is deliberately going round the houses to get you so confused you give up, ie shut up.

Go to the websites of Relate, Refuge, Women's Aid, Gov.uk, your local council, Age Concern etc and read their lists of what constitutes emotional and/or mental abuse. After that google DARVO. Then download a free pdf of Lundy Bancroft's excellent book of Why does he do that?

Hopefully you will read enough to open your eyes and you come back so we can help you with your escape plan. Your words, your tone, your timings, your subject matters, are absolutely fine - it's him, not you

hes always been like this. I don’t think it’s malicious a lot of time, I genuinely think he doesn’t have the skills or ability to communicate properly. It’s not changed in 20 years. I thought it could change but I’ve never heard what I need to hear.

There came a point in my marriage when I realised my husband just didn’t like me that much. Everyone else in my life was kind to me and he wasn’t abusive, just not very nice. Divorced 5 years now and never been happier!

If you genuinely believe he doesn't have the skills or ability, then no amount of clever tactics or well-constructed sentences will work. You will simply be wasting your time and breath.

The more you tell us, the worse he sounds, OP. So what if he's not doing it to be mean, etc, the end result is the same. Don't waste any more time with him, and plan a better life without him.

There are a couple of techniques that can be used here @friendlytotheend

1. Don't let it be personal. The words matter. The action needs to be decoupled from the person. "You're lovely, but when you did this, it made me feel like that" is very different from "you made me feel like that".
2. If he starts on the whole "I feel like that too" route, just responded with "OK, we can deal with it one at a time. Let's talk about why that is, then come back around", or "OK, Let's get to that next".

That way you are highlighting that there are two issues, and that discussing your issue is not going to go away and that you are not letting him deflect back to you.

Ultimately though, it does sound like his communication skills are not compatible with your needs.

I wonder how you imagined someone on MN could advise you, bearing this in mind?

Honestly I'd have left after a week of this

They don’t start like this - it escalates over years. It becomes a very lonely place to be.

Defensiveness is not an autistic trait.

Frustrating! It’s like playing sentence tennis. It sounds like couple’s counselling would be ideal, you need a third party to point out what he’s doing.

Your DP is an arsehole. I don’t think we can help with that.

I would separate. Good luck.

This isn't a communication problem, it's a personality problem in his side.

He's shutting you down because he doesn't care about you. He never apologises because he isn't sorry. It's more important to him to be right than to be fair, honest, truthful or loving.

Whether this is a person you want to keep serving is up to you. Cos this isn't a partnership, it's master and servant (or 'wife appliance' as they say).

*He is showing you that he will not be held accountable, that he will blame you, that he will not listen to you, that you will always be the one who is wrong in his relationship with you.•

Why do some people like this guy see this dynamic ans preferable over a loving mutual relationship?

the point I’m making is about me having no agency or right to speak up.

Indeed. Google “DAVRO in relationships”. It’s an abusive tactic. Does it sound familiar?

Why didn’t he just end the relationship?

Do you have any positive moments together? Are there any times you can say to him
’when we talk about specifics/have slow sex/talk about X I feel really happy’?

If he won't listen to you would he listen to another man explain it? Have a look at Jimmy on relationships and maybe send your husband a few hints... This one jumped out at me as relevant but have a look, you may find others that apply just as well

www.facebook.com/100088910286172/videos/listening-is-loving-relationship-husbandandwifelife-datingadvice/1532681534043705/

Agree and often VERY aware of the micro - feedbacks in non verbal
communication

And you aren't going to after 20 years. This is who he is and will always be. Imagine what he'll be like in another 20 years, age rarely improves men like this. Even if he agreed to counselling (which sounds extremely unlikely) he'll almost certainly revert. You've spend a great deal of your life pandering to this man but life is too short for that. If you can separate then I think you should. Imagine the sense of freedom and relief without this crap in your life.

This type of parroting communication is evidence of lack of emotional maturity. They have zero understanding of what you're trying to tell them and just mirror what you say. It is very childish and indicative of a mindset that has not evolved into adulthood. It is also someone that will not, under any circumstances, accept responsibility for anything. They are probably very selfish and think everything should revolve around them. You will never reason with this person as they are incapable of proper discussion or indepth reflection of their own behaviour. They see everything you say as an attack on them and deflect it back to you. How have you even had a long term relationship with this man? Your emotional needs must be sadly depleted. Someone like him does not care how you are feeling as they will turn it back on you, until you are saying sorry for something you haven't even done and feel ten times worse than before the one sided talk.

Any decision we’ve made as a family rests at my feet if it goes wrong, it would be my fault if we split up, I would be the one hurting the children, I would be the one that had embarrassed him.

So what? You’re dealing with someone with the emotional maturity of a child, of course he’ll blame you if you end the relationship. So what if he does? You can tell your children the truth and they will see it themselves when they’re older.

You continue to contort yourself to find a better way to communicate with him when there isn’t one. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is a sign of madness.

Once I tried the tactic of saying to him “I need you to say this to me (such as ‘you look nice’ or ‘are you ok’ or ‘how can I help you’ or ‘I’ll do that for you’ and he hit the roof saying I cannot tell him what to say.

I was trying to give him the tools he needed to meet my needs better but it backfired spectacularly on me.

I genuinely was trying to help us, not control him in any way.

I understand that the sample conversations are just illustrative, but what if it went something like

you “I’m not very happy”
him “well I’M not very happy”
you "well, what could we change that would make you happier?"

Maybe this is something you've already tried. But I do think that showing willingness to make changes for your partner means that they're more willing to make changes for you.

Or alternatively
you “I’m working too hard”
him “well I’M working too hard”
you "okay, well is there any job that we're currently doing, and you'd feel okay if neither of us did it? Is there a job you think could be done more efficiently? Is there a job we could get the kids to do? Or pay someone else to do?"

It feels like a response like that makes it really clear that you're not trying to blame him, but instead are trying to fix a problem. And if you're clearly not trying to blame him, maybe he'll be less likely to blame you.

(As I said, I know you just gave short examples, and I think it's quite likely you've already tried something like this, and apologies if so.)

Hello - thank you for the suggestions, which I shall take on board.

I struggle where I’m trying to get across to him that I’m suffering and it ends up with either me taking blame or (in your suggestion) he turns it around to him and suddenly I’m trying to placate or sort his problems. It’s like I don’t have a voice.

thank you for the suggestions though, I’ll try them.