How important is marriage if you're older and won't be having any kids together?

[Writer034]

DP and I have been in a relationship for nearly 4 years. We don't live in one house, but spend 4 nights a week together, sometimes more. I have two teenage DC who adore him and he's brilliant with them. He has 3 adult DC — two live away and I have no relationship with them (their choice), one lives with him and we get on very well; she'll likely move out in a year or so.

DP has said he assumes we'll live together at some point. But he's also made clear that, after a marriage where he was cheated on and lost half of everything in the divorce, he's not looking to marry again.

He contributes to my household financially via a monthly standing order, cooks and buys food when he's here, and is generally very generous — he pays for everything when it's just him and me (holidays, meals out, weekends away), and we tend to split in half when my DC are with us, though he'll often still pick up the bill. He's generous with my friends, has paid for various things for my kids, and is always mega thoughtful for birthdays/Christmas. I mention the money side purely to show he's not tight (because I know that £££ will be seen as the main cause here, most likely) — quite the opposite. He's not rich, but he's risen further in his career so has more income and assets than me. He's 10 years older.

He's a high-quality partner in more ways than I can explain - romantic, loving, supportive, pleasant temperament (in a world full of angry men!). Just a gorgeous character all round. I'm madly in love with him, in a way you'd absolutely never expect at my age (51). I struggle to imagine being without him and day to day, I know I can count on him, whether it's remembering something small I mentioned once, or collecting my daughter from a school trip at midnight.

And yet. The fact he won't marry me is never far from my mind. It's not that I necessarily want a married life, as having some space is actually quite nice — but I struggle with him not wanting me for a wife, and I think it would be a dealbreaker for him if I pushed. I've said I'd sign a prenup because I'm not after his assets whatsoever (and I'd love him the same even if he didn't have a penny), but he insists it isn't about money (he's not planning to leave his kids anything, he expects to spend it in retirement). He just doesn't believe in marriage anymore, thinks it's outdated for people our age, and swears he's fully committed to my kids and me long-term.

How important is marriage, really, at this stage of life? Why does the principle bother me so much (ok you can't answer that, but I'd like your thoughts)? Sometimes I feel like I just don't want to be in a relationship with a man who won't marry me, even knowing I will probably not find this kind of love again. Am I totally insane, and if so, how do I talk myself out to leaving/losing such a good thing that means the world to me?

"she too was from the brigade of ‘not touching pre marital assets” prior to the wedding but boy did that change post separation along with a major character assassination of Hubby."

I'm suspicious of this story, it sounds like internalised misogyny. She was your friend for 20 years and now she's suddenly turned into a gold-digging character-assassinating bitch, and he's the purest of all pure innocent men. Yeah sure

no one asked you though. And I’m not the only friend surprised at the very quick change of tack she took.

bet you wouldn’t have picked up on it though if I had written it about a man…

This is me too. And My dp probably would, but I don't even want to move in together, which seems to make him sad. But living together would definitely make us both sad!

I am also cautious after my divorce where my ex threatened to take me for everything. It's a deep fear of being in that situation again, even though I know DP wouldn't do that to me if we did split up.

But I also don't want to live together and start getting into the whose turn is it to cook, do the laundry, do the cleaning etc etc. It works for us and although in a lot of ways it would be easy for us to get married and a place together I think it's healthier for us how it is now.

I totally get why he wouldn’t marry, it’s predominantly a smart move for people planning a family, and he’s had his fingers burnt by divorce. I am happily unmarried to my long term partner. But something no one seems to have mentioned is the sheer lunacy of contemplating binning a great love in your early fifties due to your insecurity. He’s told you how he feels about you but you’re choosing not to believe him because you’re hung up on this issue. The stuff you hear about men saying they don’t want to marry and then marrying the next g/f after 5 mins, are often younger women with future fakers who lead them to believe there’ll be marriage and kids but don’t intend to follow through. You’re simply not in that situation.

Obviously if you can’t get past this, then of course you can end things, but only if you’d still feel it was the right decision if you end up single. Take a look at the numerous threads on here from women in their fifties who would like a partner but can’t find one. It’s grim out there if you’re a fifty something woman who’d like to find a nice man. Of course my advice would be different if he was treating you badly but he isn’t. I wonder if you might have a tendency towards self sabotage if things feel too good. I.e you don’t think you deserve something nice so you’re looking for the cracks. Self sabotage is really common and often the result of childhood experiences or prior experiences, did things happen in your previous relationship that undermined your sense of self worth? Maybe some therapy sessions with a good counsellor might be an idea before you blow up something that clearly makes you very happy otherwise.

Now my kids are grown, I would never remarry. It makes things too complicated financially and is just unnecessary. I think he's being sensible.

I think the 'cognitive dissonance' is in your mind, you seem to equate being loved in a mature, stable, fulfilling relationship, with the necessity to be married.
To be fair that's what centuries (millennia!) of social conditioning does to many of us women .. it has previously been the case that only marriage was seen as the end goal of loving someone. And given the way our legal system works if you have DC together, there is a value to it.
What is really empowering though is reading the comments of so many women in this thread who recognise marriage for what it really is-a social construct, a financial and legal contract-and that so many woman now reject that as the way they want their lives to be lived and managed.
I had a wonderful marriage to a man I loved dearly (no DC) but even so, with hindsight I would probably choose not to be married if I did it all again. I would never marry again.
Maybe spend a bit of time with an independent person unpacking what marriage means to you and why it seems to have the potential in your mind to undermine what sounds like a great relationship with your DP.
As you can probably tell-I'm Team 'don't marry' so with your partner on this!

I get what you mean about the cognitive dissonance. I don't have an easy answer.
I am the financially better off one in our relationship.
Both of us have been married before. His kids adult, mine early teens. Both of us similar age early 50s.
I came out of my divorce much better off than he did, and this is mainly because my ex H was wealthy with a business and rentals. I too have earned well and have a decent pension pot. My new partner earns very well but has lost 50% of everything.
I stand to risk £££ by getting married again, so my head says no no no. Also my kids should inherit all my assets.

But I'd like nothing more than to hear my current man propose romantically and present me with a ring.
Years of internalized misogyny and conditioning maybe? It's not rational I agree

Similar situation here. He’s never married, doesn’t believe in it. I’m divorced, with a lot more money than him. We’re happy, it would be madness for me to marry, even though I’m confident he wouldn’t screw me over like my ex did. But there’s a tiny little voice that wants to be his wife and wants him to want to marry me. I squash it down, not worth it.

@Writer034 , do you wear a ring? Would a ring, not necessarily a diamond engagement ring help to show you are in a committed relationship?

There are two parts, given your financial independence it's the romantic notion and the emotional stability that marriage brings. But also the worst case scenario he or you are critically ill and decisions need to be made on future care and life support machine (that got heavy). Lasting Power Of Attorney!

And if you do get married the financial of ensuring assets go to the appropriate parties.

But he's also made clear that, after a marriage where he was cheated on and lost half of everything in the divorce, he's not looking to marry again

Although I can sympathise where he's coming from, that's actually not your problem. However, he is now making it your problem and laying out for you what you should & shouldn't expect.

Just be careful, because although he may have legitimate reasons not to want to get married and to stay with you as a partner, and that would be convenient for him, it doesn't mean he'll respect you as a partner if you choose to accept it.

In your case it's a bit simpler as there's children involved, so I'd recommend figuring out what's best for them and prioritising that in your decision making.

Him not wanting to marry doesn’t mean anything about his feelings towards you, it means he doesn’t want to enter into the legal arrangement of marriage, with anyone

@thesealion I think you're incredibly naive. Just because you feel a certain way and that is what's led you to take a certain view or action, doesn't mean it's the same thing that's motivated others to take the same action. They may have different reasons. You and others may believe it's a social construct and so on, but that doesn't mean that is how a lot of men feel about marriage, and that matters because it can dictate how they treat you and respect you later on.

Although getting married is no guarantee of happiness, and there are men out there who want to marry in order to feel some kind of unhealthy ownership over their partner, marriage is often how men express who they think is 'The One'.

Many will string women along for years, saying it's just a piece of paper, it doesn't mean anything and so on. They will even buy a house with her and allow her to carry his children - but that's because those are all things that serve him in some way. She makes his life comfortable, and he can't be bothered to look around for another partner, so he'd like to remain in the relationship.....but that doesn't mean he feels deeply for her. Even if they proclaim to love her, she is simply a good-enough-woman-for-now. Those men (after she finally dumps him), go on to meet another woman who they end up proposing to in about a year, which shows you their apparent principles were a lie.

Not important at all.. I’m in a similar situation to you OP and don’t expect to marry my DP

Why not have a commitment ceremony without the legalities? You can still make promises to each other, and exchange rings if you wish, you just won't be legally tied to each other. More important would be nominating each other as NIK and organising LPOAs for health and/or finance.

It all sounds really lovely, OP. Why does he not intend to leave anything to his children? My ex is doing this. Inherited from his parents and blowing it all with the intention to leave nothing to his children. He's a cunt.

That aside, would you consider a hand-fasting? I think it's a lovely thing to do. It has no legal basis and you'd need legal advice and watertight will when you buy a home together.

I totally get what you're saying OP and I'm in a similar boat. I've been with my partner 13 years and he said from the start he'd never marry again after being stung very badly in his divorce. The funny thing is I'm not really bothered about getting married either (also divorced) yet the idea that he doesn't want me as his wife narks me too somewhat! I can't quite reconcile the two opposing thoughts in my head! I occasionally make cracks about just being his 'friend with benefits' probably so he has to give me reassurance I suppose. We both have our own houses (we live in his) and grown up children each. As we get older I do worry about stuff like what would happen if one of us became ill and the other isn't next of kin so has no rights, plus the pension implications etc. His grandad remarried at 80 "for tax reasons" so maybe he'll reconsider and want to do the same if we ever get to that stage!

You should not marry - and yes that's for financial reasons.

Many people rush into second marriages, but a marriage is primarily a FINANCIAL commitment. You and he both have responsibilities to your DC and the most sensible thing is to keep your finances legally separate so they will inherit their parents' estates without the added complication of a partner, who then has a life interest in the estate. If you want to be each other's NOK or health POA, then do that, but marriage is something you do if you are having kids IMO and it's not necessary otherwise.

FWIW, I would never marry again if my DH died or we divorced. That financial commitment goes both ways and having had step parents all my life, I would never want to saddle my DC with them. It sounds like you need to work on your self-esteem if you are agonising about him not wanting to marry you. He's being sensible and you're being emotional - you should work on that and not risk your happiness over it.

Well, that's your answer to why you want to get married. He married another woman and does not want to marry you. It stings. If you feel second best, or "not good enough", then you have to take it seriously and discuss it with him. Is there any other way he can make you feel appreciated/ important/ number 1?

A friend’s Mum was in a similar situation as you about 30yrs ago.
She & her partner had been together for decades, they jointly owned the house & a business, both had adult children from previous marriages.
She was diagnosed with terminal breast cancer - obviously in the 1990’s, treatment was limited.
They got married as quickly as they could, had a meeting with the children & solicitors to sort out a will that took into consideration all the adult children (not a mirror will).
She died a month or so later, he was now her next of kin & also received an income from her pension.

Who knows what would’ve happened if she hadn’t become ill? I suspect they would’ve continued living together & things would’ve got complicated upon illness & death.
Her tragic diagnosis at least gave them a chance to get their affairs in order.

I would want my husband to be called as next of kin if I were ill or in an accident, and I want to do the same thing for him. We both have adult children and wouldn’t want them to make those kinds of decisions. It’s all amicable now but people behave out of character at times of extreme stress. We have separate wills in place to protect the kids interests.

I'd be totally fine with that,

I have a house and a son, and I want to retain control of my asset for him.

In fact I prefer it to any other option, no matter how wealthy a partner might be. I have never seen marriage as a good thing, there are just too many unknowns.

You and your dp are happy together, and that is hard to achieve. I'd not throw it away.

Many you could see it as his last marriage/divorce having scarred him so badly he’d never go there again with anyone - ie, it’s not about you. It’s about him and his history. And if that history means he’s not enough for you because you definitely want marriage, you may have to rethink.

That said, not only do I agree with him for his sake but I agree with him for your sake. You don’t ow 2/3 of his children, and your post is all about you and yourself. You have children. There’s no “I” when it comes to remarriage; there’s you and your children as well as him and his children.

I think you’re currently so carried away by romance and a lovely relationship that you’re not thinking about the right things with the right priority. It’s a good thing he’s saying no to marriage, tbh.

I agree with him - and for financial reasons towards his kids. However, depending on the outcome of the current gov consultation taking place looking at giving cohabiting couples financial framework matching married couples, its possible he won't want to cohabit in the future either.

The simple answer to that is don’t sacrifice your career.

You’re entitled to your opinion. But even if my current partner dumped me and proposed to his next girlfriend within 10 minutes it wouldn’t affect or disappoint me in any way seeing as I’m the one who doesn’t want to get married

Agree. The issue there is believing in something that doesn't exist (common law marriage) People need to make decisions based on reality not on what some bloke has told them or because they can't afford £50k for their ' dream wedding'