MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

@Eeriefairy that will be my next step. I’m so alone in the world, dealing with a debilitating illness and his abuse.

You are not alone Ceriane.

Do contact Womens Aid. I presume you are referring to your father and his enabler in the shape of your mother. Do refrain from contacting either because your mother has chosen a side here and it’s not yours.

What you describe about your MIL makes me wonder whether narcissism isn't the least of her worries. Think another step up from narcissism or two. Narcissists dont seem to care what others think, but they actually very much do. They are terrified of being unmasked and of any shame and self doubt rising to the surface.

If someone does not care I would wonder about sociopathy or psychopathy.

I think having read the link that might be malignant narcissism. Getting real joy out of people’s pain because they are nothing and beneath you sounds like narcissism but really sadistic also.

I wonder what that weird dude dancing on that film Apex would be classed as?

@Ceriane they will have the best advice, honestly. For where you are and details of your situation that you might not want to share here (or even if you did want to, I think their advice would still be more informed and they can offer real support for you). You’re not alone. Too many women are in/have been in situations just like yours 💐

I think dealing with abuse long term often leads to physical health problems and that does make everything harder. But you may find that just being away from it has an unbelievable impact on your health.

I have been horrifically abused for years, mainly emotionally but a LOT of aggression and at times physically, when I was a kid on and off between the ages of 7 and 17, and again when I was a young person and moved back in with them for a while. Between 25 and now 43 (a good few years) rarely because of not living with them and he was rarely ever there anyway, however I have had a lot more to do with them recently due to a serious health condition and other family issues and they live local. I had forgotten just how abusive it all was until I started having therapy recently and now I just don't know how I've got through life (glossing over it, telling myself it wasn't that bad) yes it WAS that bad, if I was to list the things they (especially he) has said and done to me you would be horrified. My therapist thinks I have been through severe trauma and she doesn't even know half of it yet. I don't know how I have stayed sane throughout my life. Through physical illness and anxiety (and the fact I'm so traumatised that if I go through a bad time I withdraw from people) I have become quite isolated and am really quite alone in the world now. A few days ago I was taken to hospital in an ambulance because of my physical health issue, and because he kicked off on the same day and I had to run from their house late at night with no shoes and no key, just my phone, the police were called (I didn't call them but the emergency services thought I needed them as I sounded so distressed), when the police came to the ambulance and found me (I was extremely unwell), they had spoken to him first. He turned on the charm, made it sound like a big misunderstanding and made it sound like I had a mental illness (other than anxiety I absolutely do not), and the (very young) police officer spoke down to me like I was a silly little girl who was obviously from a very loving home (he had no idea why I was in the ambulance....and this is not a regular thing for me, this is only the 2nd time I've ever been in an ambulance in my life and I was very physically unwell and needed to go to A&E where I stayed there for 8 hours). I think he thought I was younger and probably lived with them still. The paramedics were really quite disgusted by this, and the female officer who was a bit older was clearly more on my side and said "are you sure you're okay love, are you sure you don't need us" I said I was fine it wasn't a police matter as at the time I was just desperate to get my physical health crisis sorted. I have been through a LOT of trauma, but this incident was extremely traumatic.

@Ceriane I’m so sorry to hear all that. It really does sound like you need support with it properly. Can you tell someone at the hospital?

It was a busy A&E department where I was being rushed from room to room for various checks and then they discharged me, I was more concerned about being checked out and making sure I was safe health wise. It didn’t seem the right time or place and I just wanted to go home and sleep.

I haven’t had any abuse for over 20 years, I didn’t think I could be abused again because I’m an adult, but this is worse than when I was a child because I’m so Ill. I didn’t realise how vulnerable I still am, it’s like it never stopped and all those years of being free and in control never happened. It’s hard to explain but the therapy has opened up an old wound (which to be honest I knew it would) but I didn’t think I would be anywhere near this traumatised as I have been so distanced from it for so long.

I am struggling at the moment I don’t know why or how to articulate my feelings. I presume dsis has now moved into DMs as she was leaving her house by the end of June I knew it was coming so I don’t know why I feel like I do I can’t even explain how I feel kind of lost and let down all over again which is how I felt when it first happened

its not jealousy yes she got the house living mortgage and rent free well she’s had and got everything really but I doubt she will get to keep it as i presume it will be sold when dm dies to pay care home fees and the stupid equity mortgage dsis insisted on taking out the main reason she blocked me and excluded me from everything including dm life. I wouldn’t want to be in her position

i think i feel yet again dm who may not even be aware of it is bailing her out again financially. It’s not a case of dsis never learning how to manage money learning a lesson from the first time she got in debt. She learnt she could spend freely get in debt and dm would pay it I gave her money numerous times as well

i feel let down by dm when ss and opg were talking to her why didn’t she say something why didnt she stand up for me and her gc i know dsis has manipulated her so might not be her fault but it still hurts

for some reason I am probably over analysing things that have been done and said in the past like putting me down infront of dc when they were teenagers rewriting my teenage years like I was a wild child I really wasn’t and dc had done worse than me by that time that and some other odd behaviour that I just brushed off at time and how dm and dsis had a bit of a weird codependent relationship I put down to the fact they were both single where as I was married with dc but looking back it was odd

I am sure it will pass but I just feel a bit broken all over again and i thought I had moved passed this and full of anxiety although I am peri so that doesn’t help

@Spendysis I remember commenting on one of your previous posts that I think we have a sort of grief for the family relationships we could have had. I think your feelings now could be part of that grief. Knowing that your sister is now living in your mum's home whilst your mum has no contact with you understandably brings a feeling of finality. It's not really about the house, and you clearly don't want to be in your sister's position; it's about the feeling that there is no longer any chance of a relationship with you mum. I'm sure it also brings to the fore lots of feelings of unfairness from times when you have been the sensible one and tried to look out for your Mum but have probably been badged as 'difficult'.
I'm at an earlier stage in a similar situation. GB2 is very clearly planning to move his family in with Mum to get her house for himself rather than selling it to pay for appropriate accommodation and care. Like your sister, he has always been protected from the consequences of his actions. My relationship with Mum is tricky and I am as low contact as possible with GB2. I have absolutely no desire to swap places with GB2- for lots of reasons plus I can see that it's only a matter of time before this plan goes horribly wrong. But I can see that if/when he does move in I will feel sad, angry and frustrated. Not because I want to be in his shoes, or even that I want a share of any possible inheritance, but because it will feel like him removing any continuing relationship I might have had with Mum.

I think all of this is just sad and it brings about cycles of grief of what could have and should have been. It’s so unfair that a narc came into the family and destroyed it. I don’t really have a family as such anymore. Childhood was based around parents illness which I totally understand. Then I thought I would gain a surrogate family only to enter this rubbish. It is hard to let go of people and situations when people have died let alone people that are still alive. Death is atleast final, and they are gone. These people are alive and often thriving in their performance. This is something I find hard. If they were in the ditch it would feel better but considering they have a mental illness they are actually doing well (or appearing to be).

Your story sounds uncannily similar to mine. I’m now almost a month NC after the latest in a long line of rude and hurtful behaviour towards me and my children. I have a long history of being the peacemaker. I can’t do it anymore. These people don’t have any intention of bringing peace - it’s all about drama and triangulation and our household is sick to the back teeth of it. That my children have only mentioned going back there once each since the latest episode tells its own story.

Your sister sounds just like my brother. For years now he has been engineering situations that make it uncomfortable for us to go around - “emergencies” that aren’t emergencies at all. He and his son now occupy 2 out of 3 of my parents bedrooms - it’s very much their house and my nephew will cheerfully tell us all as much.

When we were in our 20s, my brother told me he expects to get both of their estates in full because he helped out with the family business. They have told me otherwise but I’ve no idea what they’ve told him.

Nevertheless, he relies on their support continuously - doesn’t wash up or clean up after himself. A 54 year old man. They’re in their 70s and 80s.

He seems to have zero appreciation of how far south this is going to go - wouldn’t contact social services when they last had a heath crisis - blowing my phone up in the middle of the school run to sort it out because he had to go to work. They all moved away to another county.

He seems to be living under the pretense that they won’t need any kind of support and their health will continue forever whereas every time I see them they’re frailer and frailer. My father can barely walk now. I’m sure he thinks it’ll be a case of poof, they’re going to shuffle off this mortal coil and he’ll get a house. Whereas in reality it looks very much like a decade plus of needing additional support, if they can even stay in their home. He’s living in a dream world.

@Ladybyrd I think you have absolutely done the right thing going NC. But, with the benefit of hindsight, I would advise you to think now (rather than if/when it happens and emotions are high) what you will do if either/both of your parents become ill or have care needs. Will you remain NC and leave the to it? Would you feel you want to try to advocate for them? Would you be prepared to have any involvement in their care/organising care etc? I'm not suggesting you consider this to give you more to stress about, but to give you time and space to think carefully about this before it happens so that you can avoid being pushed in to doing more than you want to in a crisis.
My brother is a similar sort of person (similar age and also never been fully independent) and I suspect has always expected that our parents would continue to support him from beyond the grave by leaving everything to him. I was never NC with our parents but kept contact fairly low for a long time. I got dragged back in to help a lot when there was a crisis with our parents' health and have ended up by default doing a lot more than I am happy with. It was clearly the expectation that I would take over practical support for brother as well as mum once our parents couldn't do it. Brother's mentality seems to be that I got everything easy (I didn't, I worked bloody hard for everything) whereas his life is harder and he needs the help, so it's only fair that I do this. His Plan A for keeping Mum's house now that she can't manage alone seems to have been that I would be her carer. He thinks it's very selfish that I won't so he's moved to Plan B- move in with her. This plan also seems to involve me giving up a significant of my time to be her unpaid carer/admin assistant etc. The fact that I dropped everything to stay with her in a crisis seems only to have increased his sense of entitlement; since I was able to stay with her for weeks then he thinks I can, and should, keep this up. All of this happened quickly as Dad has a sudden health crisis and it was only then that we realised how much help Mum needed and how much Dad was doing to cover up her decline. I really wish I had time to have thought it through and even if I still went over in the crisis I should have been much clearer about how long I could help for and set boundaries about what I would do right from the start.

@formalwellies I haven't made any kind of announcement. I've just dropped the rope. And I can see that'll be enough for any meaningful contact to end, because all of the running was only ever done by me.

I'm not prepared to try to smooth over a situation that was completely of their making and really hurtful to me and my children. Because, basically, there's very little benefit to my children in continuing this very hollow relationship anyway.

They are Hallmark grandparents. They want the pat on the back on special dates for being marvellous, when they offer absolutely no support at all. They tell us they've visited the town we live in after the event. As my partner says, they can't be bothered. Now neither can we. It's turned out to be a very poor investment with an increasingly negative return.

Both of my children have only ever asked once about going back there, and it's almost a month ago now, which tells its own story. The fact that my eldest asked why his grandma is always banging on about his cousin, telling me how it makes him feel less cared for. I think that's the point where most parents would call time on it, because that's irrefutable proof it's become damaging.

As for care, they decided to move a three hour trip away. I would and could have given them support (as far as reasonably practicable - I know there can come a point where it isn’t). But visiting them on school days is a hard line for me. The road down there is a major artery, and whenever there's an accident, you'll sit there for hours. I am not prepared to run the risk of going down there and not being back in time to collect my children. My partner works hours away from where we live and there is no one else. It's stupid really, because I would have been in a position to help if they hadn’t moved. But that was their choice. Their consequences. Looking forward, this may not be such a bad thing from my point of view. It necessitates a hard no.

As far as I'm concerned, re: their money sitting in equity in their home. I hope it goes in care fees if it means they're cared for properly and spending their last few years living as well and independently as they can. That’s just how it works 🤷‍♀️ I do not have a good feeling about where they are headed currently. GB is not responsible enough to care for himself and his son, let alone them.

The last time my father had a health crisis and was completely immobile, GB's solution to getting him to the bathroom was sitting him in a plastic container and dragging it down the hall. He could easily have got a wheelchair. Jesus Christ, it isn’t rocket science. But no. That's the dignity they'll have, living in their own home.

A nephew approaching his teenage years whose father never tells him no, stuck in the middle of nowhere with ailing grandparents. A father living vicariously, who want's a "mate" rather than focussing on raising an independent adult. Who has never really had any experience adulting himself.

Then add to that an elderly couple (whose home it actually is) whose health starts failing. I worked with the elderly for many years so I know how bad this can get. I saw it with my grandmother - repeated falls. Stays in the home.

My brother is just focussed on being continually centralised. He doesn't seem to have the faintest idea what it will actually involve.

I certainly won't be sacrificing myself or my children.

Why do they baby their children? Do they want the child to remain dependent and childlike? Are they afraid they will grow up and that child will not center them anymore and they’ll be abandoned? It seems very pathetic.

I think that’s it. What are you setting them up for? A very unhealthy codependent relationship where they’ll either be left on their own or bring a new generation into it? It’s very selfish.

I’ve also noticed my nephew is picking up all my mother’s emotional manipulation habits. Not consciously. I’m sure neither of them even know they’re doing it. But I asked him to move, nicely, when he sat in my seat for the third time. He ran off crying. Didn’t like the seating arrangement at our Christmas dinner one year. Sulking. This is what she does - if you ever object to anything, on come the waterworks and hysteria. And it works - people back down.

She didn’t have a good childhood and I doubt any of that would have worked with her parents but when I was a child it was highly effective within our family unit.

@Ladybyrd You seem to have a clear view of them- I wish I'd done the same. Just beware of, and prepared to push back firmly on, unreasonable expectations when something goes wrong. The official line from my brother and mother now that mum needs a lot of help is that he lived with (or close to) our parents for many years to help them whilst I was off selfishly living my own life so it's only right that now I should 'step up' and help them both. (Definitely not that he was waited on by them and sponged off them for years).
@MustIgo I don't think parents always see it as babying them. My parents would have said that they gave all their children the support that they needed, when they needed it. It's just that as far as they could see my brothers' lives were so difficult in other ways that it was only right that they took the pressure off by helping them with everyday things a bit. Plus they treated any small contribution or achievement as a huge thing that justified all the other help. I remember once being asked to go over (a 3-4 hour round trip) to help my parents with something in the garden that was too much for them to do on their own. GB2 (then mid 30s) was watching TV in bed so I asked why he couldn't be asked to help and was told that he was very tired because he'd been at work the previous day and anyway he cuts the grass once a week, every week, so it's about time I helped out too!

The saga continues with GB2 and our elderly Mum. He is still adamant that no paid care is needed and still seems convinced that if he keeps up the demands etc I will give in and let down my boundaries. I really wouldn't in any way wish to be him but I do occasionally think that it would be quite freeing to be able to think a bit like he does. He is so absolutely convinced that he is Very Clever and able to instinctively know better than anyone else that he never spends time looking in to possible options, weighing things up, worrying about the consequences if he gets it wrong etc and yet is also totally convinced that if things do go wrong it is always Someone Else's fault and so Someone Else is absolutely definitely obliged to sort everything out. Just as a few real life examples (which would be darkly amusing if not real) of how I assume he thinks

• Meeting with your parents' Vicar and other relatives to discuss Dad's funeral arrangements? Best to remind everyone that you are The Clever One, so why not tell the Vicar that all this religion stuff is bullshit? That will get him thinking and if he doesn't instantly become an atheist you will have proved that he's only in it for the money. Everyone will definitely be reminded that you are Very Clever and Brave and will want you to tell them how things should be done.
• Decided to have a child in your mid 40s when your parents are mid 70s and in ill health? No need to consider any paid child care- even if they SAY they are not fit enough your parents will be fine once they get in the habit of looking after a small child again. What else do they have to do? When they can't physically do it any more this is not your fault or your child's fault so family must take over instead. You must absolutely not take annual leave to cover any school holiday childcare- you need a break so it is absolutely right that you save this for rest days and breaks away with your friends. The best solution to this is to use your exceptional wit to send sarcastic messages to family members to remind them that you are Very Clever and should be listened to. If your sarcastic messages are not showing as read, this will be because they know you are right and don't have any answer they can give. No, no, they won't have blocked your phone number! That's not even possible!
• Gaps in your CV? Limited work place experience in your late 30s? Don't worry, you are Very Clever so apply for a competitive training programme for a well paid career. If anyone suggests you try to get some relevant experience, read up about the job, research the training/application process ignore them- this is just for Stupid People, your Cleverness will come across in your application. They will actually almost certainly fast track you! If you don't get an interview this is because the system is clearly rigged against Clever People- they just want a bunch of clones.
• Your child isn't finding social interactions with other children easy and their teacher has suggested finding ways to help him socialise outside school too. She has mentioned play dates with children on friends and family, so clearly agrees that your family should be doing more child care. Bitch sister says that more time with her 'children' who are now in their 20s is not what the teacher meant- she is definitely Stupid and Selfish. In fact, this would be the perfect solution. They are children on family but also old enough to babysit. You are a Genius!

@formalwelliesThat’s the galling part. They really do think they’re intellectually superior. I remember some jibe at my parents’ house inferring I was stupid in front of my children. For the first time ever, I called him out on it. “Why is that funny?” He was like a rabbit in the headlights - he didn’t know what to do. He’s never done it since.

Even more irritating, my mother constantly deferring to him as the authority on everything. I used to work in law, anything legal comes up, she goes to him. A while back they made a huge hoopla about him getting a speeding ticket - GB demonstrating his significant intellectual chops by convincing my mother how unfair it all is - it’s the only crime where you’re presumed guilty, according to him. Nevermind they had a photo of the dickhead and processing all these trials may take a little while. I don’t know how I kept a straight face, I really don’t.

I now work as a writer. Oh the fuss she made when his story about my nephew was printed by the local rag. I’ve seen his Facebook posts. There must have been some seriously heavy lifting going on in the editing room that day.

I’ve just had an argument with a family member who I now can 100% call a narcissist. It was absolutely awful and I’m still shaking. I’m also stupid for getting baited. They were being so hateful to another family member I am fond of who is vulnerable and unwell. They we re-writing history completely and being absolutely disgusting to be honest. I stood but the middle and told them extremely loudly not to talk to this person in this manner. They they turned to me and started so I started. Let’s just say that bridge has been burnt. I don’t care, they are nasty, always felt something was wrong with them. But I’ve lowered myself by shouting in his face (mainly to tell him how disgusting he was being). Is this ok sometimes??? I feel stupid but someone needed to tell him.

I’ve never seen such hate before such venom. They really put it all and scapegoated this person who did not deserve it at all. It was actually quite scary. I think I understand the term scapegoat now. It’s just someone that can focus their nastiness onto, someone who can’t fight back and who they can twist others to see them. It’s just a release for all their pent up entitlement that they try and mask.

@MustIgoThe anger you felt wasn’t instantaneous. It happens because you’ve had your buttons repeatedly pressed. Ask yourself honestly, did your anger cause the incident, or was it a reaction to something they did?

My anger did not cause the argument, this person was already shouting at the other person who was crying with their head in hands. But yeah I’ve always felt off with them, they are a big head. The other person is incredibly vulnerable and adults do not behave like this so I got involved. But then they started on me, completely re-writing history and I got mad so I burnt that bridge now. I feel awful for getting angry but perhaps it’s acceptable at times. People need to be told to fuck off and I do not want a relationship with somebody nasty like them.

I’ve spent my life avoiding arguments. I dislike them. I’ve never been on the other end of a proper narc argument. They are really very nasty. The way he made up and changed and dismissed and laughed at what was being said. He gaslight the other person claiming their illness was fake (it’s absolutely not) he then gaslight my experience and I lost it. I forgot you can’t argue to prove a point as they aren’t interested

They rewrite history while it is happening I have no idea how they all have the same 'skillset' and they have been around since the dawn of time so not something learned on the internet. They vitriol and hatred towards certain people is truly scary and unless you see it firsthand or are the victim or target of one of these monsters then you would never really believe it. Most of us do not want to believe such evil exists.