Tricky situation with friend & her 3 year old wild child!

[Spangletine]

Hello you lot
I've name-changed because this is a really hard one
I have a great friend. Close for years. we both have 3 year olds.
I'm a believer in firm boundaries. My child is pretty low maintenance & lovely (apart from in this heat!) ever since my friend's child was about 18 months old she has been quite violent (has pushed/hit my child/bitten several people & last week hit my friend in the face) Child also rarely listens, has melt downs all the time, and is very difficult. My friend is constantly saying how 'lucky' I am to have such an 'angel' & gets really upset as she 'can't take hers anywhere' but I have never seen her give boundaries/tell her child that her behaviour isn't ok etc. Ever. In fact she is always walking on eggshells while the kid calls the shots. Her child tried to hit my child again last week.
Finding it hard to be around them & not really able to relax as her child's behaviour is unpredictable. Really hard to say 'how about some consequences for your child?' Without offending her when there are things been thrown at me & my child or just general chaos. Found myself making excuses to not hang out the other day....
Asked her if she thinks she need any support with child & she dismissed it. My child said ' I don't like %#* anymore the other day. WWYD?

Id tell him off my self.

If the child is hitting or being rude to their mum

dont talk to mummy like that its rude

Or if its to you or yours.
Do not hit so n so it is unkind

It may give the friend the confideance to back you up if and he kicks off.

Or it ruin your friendshio in which case... your well rid.

If my close friend's DD hit/pushes or scratches my DD I will say "No X! Don't hit etc " unless my mate is there, as she would say it to her first.
If she didn't, there's no way I wouldn't gently tell her DD off, just in case it upset her!!

Also, if friend didn't 'correct' her DC I would also say to her "Have you thought about saying No?" and get into a conversation about gently telling off/boundaries etc
(We both have 19mo and have very similar parenting styles.)

Tbh I can't believe a parent will let their child hit them in the face and not say No or Ouch or something to let them know that's not OK... Do people really do this?

I should see your friend in the evenings without the children- she isn't going to change.

Sounds like she is struggling with her child's behaviour. It may not just be a lack of boundaries. Sometimes boundaries aren't so easy to enforce. I wouldn't be so quick to judge or be smug. Which you do cone across as, sorry.

What does the mum say when things are thrown at you?

If the dc is having melt downs do you think they may have special needs eg autism?. Mom might not want to correct in public as knows exactly what will happen.

What fresh said. I had a friend like this. Our DC's are the same age and hers started hitting mine at 18 months and still does it at 4.5 years. She provides no boundaries at all and he is a difficult child to be around so we just see them infrequently now, and it's so much better!

I was going to say your post came across quite judgy as its possible the child may have special needs. I think that type of behaviour would suggest is quite a high possibility.

Any perceived criticism is likely to be met with defensiveness so I would limit how often I saw her with her child, particularly if your child no longer enjoys meeting up anyway. Why should your child be forced into a situation where they are hit or have things thrown at them?

On occasions when you do all get together, don't be afraid to tell her ds to stop doing something. Perhaps soften the blow by saying something like 'sorry, jumped in a bit quick before you could then' or 'probably should have left that to you, just didn't want him to hurt himself/get himself into trouble'.

In time she will find other friends distancing themselves, and he will start getting into trouble at school. There may be some sen issues. When that happens, be supportive, give advice if she asks for it, listen to her concerns.

And fwiw I don't think your post comes across as particularly smug or judgy. She has been your close friend for a long time, so you are presumably well placed to know that she has never attempted to set boundaries or ensure that unwanted behaviour has consequences.

How on earth can you say there may be SN issues but then still try to blame the parenting?

Say something to be the little angel next time to testvthe waters with the mum

Nobody on here knows whether there are sen issues or not. Either way, boundaries still needed imo and no reason to doubt op when she says her friend has never attempted to discipline her child.

Oh please educate yourself.

www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/this-is-my-child-myths-about-children-with-special-needs

1 and 6

I have a child with SNs. He was quite a handful at that age. I was firm with discipline, but it just made very little difference when he was agitated. Then there were the lovely mixed messages I got from everyone around me. If I was very firm with him, I was second-guessed, told to lighten up, "don't worry, he's just being 3", "all kids are like that, he'll outgrow it." If I then backed off, it was "you need to be stricter" or even more annoying "he needs a good spanking" or "he wouldn't behave that way for me!"

It's really difficult to gauge which way to go when your child is struggling (and if it's SNs, the child IS struggling - the behaviour is their way of either trying to cope or showing that they simply are NOT coping), you're getting mixed messages from family and friends, and yet when you go into the GP, you're told "oh, they're fine - all children develop at a different rate - if this is still going on when they're 4 or 5, then we may look further into it."

Be as supportive as you can. If you can't then meet when the children are not present. It's likely not a picnic for your friend, either.

Oh god this could have been written about me. My LG is perfectly wild. I wonder if there's a problem.

Do make sure you're innocent first. I've seen other kids whack my LG with a hard toy and then wail their eyes out when my LG has retaliated when in fact she's just defended herself.

Also bear in mind the mum may not know what to do or may be so mentally and physically drained by the behaviour that it's easy to be lax when others are around.

Similarly it's unacceptable for your child to be the being of physical frustration from anyone else. Keep play dates to an hour or go places where they can run and explore as distraction?

Just a few thoughts. Good luck x

Keepcool you should also read this is my child.

ASD might mean boundaries are totally different and applying them in same way could be counterproductive. We learn to respond to the child we have, OP'S friend is I'm sure doing the best she can. It does no favours to propagate myths about "no excuse" rather than promoting understanding.

If a child has frequent meltdowns and is stressed a lot unpredictably it warrants further assessment at least .

I personally would feel like shit if my friends child turned out to not be NT and I had gone around doing judging them for not applying boundaries, so I would be cautious.

Not sure why my tablet inserted doing, I do speak fluent English. Well Scottish.

Just distance yourself from her for now.

There is no way you have to allow yourself or your DC to be on the receiving end of this sort of behaviour.

It's possible the DC has SNs, it's possible that it's just lack of boundaries but either way you don't have to allow your DC to be subjected to the behaviour if the parent is not engaging with the DC and intervening.

You sound very smug

All children are different and some much easier to discipline than others

Yes just distance yourself from your friend when she is struggling with her child. That's really great friendship.

What should she do instead, Fanjo? Allow her child to be hurt? Sit there while the DC throws things at her?

If the mother is doing nothing, what can a friend do?