Archers thread #141: The nights are drawing in. Can we turn the clocks back to a time when The Archers was fun? Cackle or carp about The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're hoping Ambridge has a pantomime again this year, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Many thanks to @TottersBlankly and @GoldenCupidon for the title suggestions.

Too much to hope, I suppose, that by the time we get to the end of this thread Chelsea's pregnancy is a distant memory and the Horrobins can gear up for a cheap and cheerful Christmas. I really, really hope she doesn't change her mind about the termination. It's a horrible and unrealistic storyline, as most of us have agreed over the past few weeks, but now I just want it to end and be forgotten about.

I do like the idea of Lilian taking on the role of witch in the woods. Much more fun to listen to than Mia sabotaging the Hunt Ball, which is surely bound to go horribly wrong, or the odd wrangling over the stained glass window which we know Peggy won't be contributing to on air , given June Spencer's retirement.

Not a peep out of anybody in Ambridge about all the recent political shenanigans, but that's hardly surprising. Nobody fretting about fuel bills or rampant inflation either.

Also, where's Jenny? I hope Angela Piper's OK.

Over to you!

Whooped and cheered every single line Ruth shouted at Jill. This has been a long time coming and you could hear decades of resentment and anger spilling out. Loved it.

David is absolutely pathetic.

Jill has a lot of front. How dare she ask “Or what?” My response would have been a succint “Or you get out of my house and the next time I see you will be at your funeral” (not threatening to kill her btw!)

When did Ruari suddenly start calling JD ‘mum’? Really bizarre.

maybe simpler- does Julianne know all the ins and outs?

Yes, Felicity Finch was the best I have ever heard her.

With Jill and Ruth - I remember it was a few years ago (maybe quite a few years ago) that we on this thread we’re collectively up in arms about Ruth’s - and David’s - treatment of Jill as a skivvy, of whom there was an expectation that she would do really rather a lot of housework. It was a factor in my really disliking Ruth, that she was so demanding and assumed so much from this elderly lady.

So perhaps the resentment has gone both ways for decades.

Gosh I now realise I’ve probably been on these threads with different usernames for nearly ten years….

I was cross about David’s “she says what she says but it doesn’t affect things”. Love the commentary on this thread that she has a DH problem - spot on! His scoffing at Ruth was ridiculous.

I really, really hope Ben doesn’t become the mental health scapegoat.

I think it is important to highlight men’s mental health, absolutely, especially at this time of year when - I think? - suicides are higher.

BUT

Could we not highlight it a) in a way that is focused around the body of a teenage girl and will demonise and stigmatise her even further b) through a character who has a really good storyline, with his nursing degree, of diverging from gender norms c) through a character who is, with his nursing degree, showing the difficulty for younger siblings in farming families when the only asset is land and there’s not enough for all of them to farm in future?

If Ben chucks in nursing, he just becomes yet another directionless younger Archer, and I think he was built up to be much more than that.

rant over.

The Julianne storyline is so interesting I think. A number of female friends did escorting when I was a student, mostly graduates with expensive tuition fees and very expensive university city accommodation costs. The focus was the same as Ruairi’s - attractive eye candy able to make intelligent conversation. Only for one or maybe two, to my knowledge, did it lead to a paid for sexual relationship. It was mostly successful, middle aged men, Juliane’s counterparts I guess. But we could sort of laugh quite easily at the stereotypical controlling/needy behaviour. With a woman in this storyline, it feels different - those behaviours feel so much more insidious. I’m enjoying it as a storyline but worry for poor Ruairi.

The discussion of presents as a ‘bonus’ was super creepy…

I really loved the strength of maternal protective instinct that came through in Ruth's words. And the string sense that however much Jill has done to feed and nurture the Archer children over the years (it takes a village an all that), when all is said and done Ben is Ruth's child and Jill needs to respect that relationship despite her view that Ruth has never been a full-time parent, what with her new fangled being a farmer not a farmer's wife nonsense.

Yes, really liked how Ruth came out fighting for her son and made it clear there is a line you do not cross when it comes to her children.

I expect Jill will now play the victim and the Archer children will line up to tell Ruth she’s the one who has to apologise🙄

Well I hope Ruth dosnt apologise.

Strong agree @TerraNostra and @Eastie77Returns

BOOP to the SWs for the David and Ruth arguments actually. They felt real - often these things feel a bit melodramatic. There’s been some cracking acting recently too. Ben’s inward gasp when Jill said she was disappointed, and Elizabeth’s absolutely fiery ‘what were you thinking?’ to Vince when she heard about the pub event come to mind.

Whatever Jill thought about terminating an Archer baby, laying into Ben was too much, because there was nothing that he could do to undo it.
However critical Jill was of his decision, it wasn't his decision to make, it was Chelsea's.
Ben's mistake (?) was to not be ready with some self-defence. How could he have 'fought for his baby'?
Ruth went a bit too far with Jill, but BOOP to her for standing up for her son. Jill didn't think that Ruth was good enough for David.

I’m a bit confused though as I’m sure there was a scene a couple of weeks ago when someone asked if Jill knew and someone else (David, Leonard?) responded and said yes she had been informed and was very calm pragmatic about it. But they may have been referring to the fact she knew about the pregnancy, not the termination.

This SL dragged for so long I’ve forgotten what happened when.

Hearing how well Chelsea dealt with Pip and Vince, I’d quite like her to bump into Jill in the village shop!

Elizabeth is the key here.
• Her termination
• Only Archer Dd around atm
• Vince relationship ????

Ah so now we know the point of Paul

Young people overload on Archers for me.

Do young people talk like Paul and Ruiari when they're flirting?

A lot more innuendo and swearing?

Yep Leonard said she knew and was fine.

So Ben isn’t allowed to cry because he impregnated Chelsea. (Are you suggesting it was rape?)

Was Ben allowed to cry, if sufficiently upset, before he impregnated Chelsea? Eg when Beth dumped him?

I don't think it's to do with gender, more that Ben struggles with emotional regulation.

I think @MereDintofPandiculation that the poster was only pointing out that you couldn't make that comparison as a girl could nor have been in such a situation. Gender very much matters here.

Jill was vile to Elizabeth at a terrible time, as was Shula. Its never particularly overt with Jill, much more emotional blackmail, and they knew all the buttons to press.
The way they treated a young woman, who should have been able to rely on her mother and big sister for support, when she was pregnant and abandoned by the awful Cameron was shocking, and very reminiscent to me of the more self righteous "yellow hat on Sundays" parents of a few of my childhood friends.

David has always been Jill's favourite, David has always been Jill's son first, everything else second. Ruth has always had a DH problem. The LSWs should give Ruth more decent lines - best I've heard from her in a long time.

I rather like the idea of Ruth as a (post)menopausal feminist who suddenly takes an interest in parish council or NFU matters.

I know they need to persuade us that we're interested in teenage stories but.....

Yes me too. She has always been a slightly second fiddle character as the one who wasn't a Proper Archer. I'd like to see her say "sod that" I'll be a Pritchard and they can like it or lump it.

When all is said and done, Jill isn't an Archer either.

Ok, thought I’d imagined the whole thing. Ruth also kept telling Ben that his gran was absolutely fine with it all so I assumed she had spoken to Jill about it at some point. I don’t understand why the outspoken Jill would give everyone the false impression she accepted the termination and then launch into that tirade.