Archers thread #141: The nights are drawing in. Can we turn the clocks back to a time when The Archers was fun? Cackle or carp about The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're hoping Ambridge has a pantomime again this year, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Many thanks to @TottersBlankly and @GoldenCupidon for the title suggestions.

Too much to hope, I suppose, that by the time we get to the end of this thread Chelsea's pregnancy is a distant memory and the Horrobins can gear up for a cheap and cheerful Christmas. I really, really hope she doesn't change her mind about the termination. It's a horrible and unrealistic storyline, as most of us have agreed over the past few weeks, but now I just want it to end and be forgotten about.

I do like the idea of Lilian taking on the role of witch in the woods. Much more fun to listen to than Mia sabotaging the Hunt Ball, which is surely bound to go horribly wrong, or the odd wrangling over the stained glass window which we know Peggy won't be contributing to on air , given June Spencer's retirement.

Not a peep out of anybody in Ambridge about all the recent political shenanigans, but that's hardly surprising. Nobody fretting about fuel bills or rampant inflation either.

Also, where's Jenny? I hope Angela Piper's OK.

Over to you!

I've already said that. I don't think there's the slightest possibility of a termination.

As for Ben's feelings, he can feel whatever he wants. He can wallow in endless baths of self-pity, shrive his flesh, wear sack cloth and ashes to his heart's content but his feelings are totally and completely irrelevant so far as how they affect Chelsea or Beth.

All that sanctimonious wittering on about "I'll support you/ I'll do whatever you want"

He's been asked to do 2 things- 2 very easy things-

Don't come to the clinic.
Don't tell anyone except Beth.

Big fail on both. Thank goodness Chelsea wasn't actually relying on his support.

I hope Beth ditches him for good. Apart from the slightly weird hair cutting, she's behaved with grace and empathy. She might be dull but she seems to be a fully functioning adult. Ben doesn't deserve her. And where did Ben think Beth was going to go? He through her out of her home.

I enjoyed tonight's but only because it was such a car crash.

An aside - given Jolene and Kenton know about Tracey's "pregnancy" surely that rumour must have reached Brookfield?

He threw....

I'm not sure Chelsea will terminate either.

The timeline of Ben's reaction is interesting. He's tried to do the 'right' thing (aside from throwing Beth out) yet hasn't quite managed. I think it shows the emotional difficulties for the father too. Not that Ben should have any say in Chelseas decision, but her decision will have an impact on Ben. His reaction tonight was quite extreme but imagine not being able to talk to anyone.

I heard part of Feedback. I think it's been relatively well handled in terms of signposting listeners.

I'm sorry but he's talking about marrying one, and he's had sex with the other, so I'd say his feelings are quite relevant, (in different ways), @TheLassWiADelicateAir.

In no way is he suggesting that Chelsea shouldn't go ahead with what she's decided.

Also, how did Ben (nurse) and Beth (reasonably intelligent girl in her 20s), plus Tracy, not work out that labour would have to be induced at this stage? It's only a couple of weeks off a potentially viable birth!

Feedback is asking for viewers' opinions about how the story's been handled. They are "returning to it later in the series".

Induced labour. I told you so.

Ben was pathetic. Chelsea asked him for 2 things only. But Ben failed her on both because Ben's feelings are more important than what Chelsea wanted.

Ben's feelings , so far as Beth is concerned, should warn her to run as fast as she can from such an immature, narcissistic child.

Why should Beth know what is involved in a 20 week abortion? There's plenty of us on this thread weren't sure. I wasn't and even after googling I didn't get a definite answer that it was induced labour. I'd guess most of the posters here are at least twice Beth's age so not sure why you would expect Beth to know this or look for the information.

Where to start? A long list? Or will as badly as it was possible to be suffice?

You say immature narcissistic, I say absolutely lovely, responsible.

Yes he didn't do what Chelsea asked him to, and that was wrong. However he is actually older and more mature than her so understandably thought that that wasn't the right thing to do. And the consequences weren't terrible.

Are you usually a fan of men knowing better what's good for women?

As for "lovely" and "responsible" and "more mature" we must be listening to a different show.

He's not saying he knows what's better for her.

People do hear different things according to their viewpoint, I guess!

I may just stop listening until it’s all over, and rely on you lovely posters to keep me up to date until this nonsense has passed!

You said

Yes he didn't do what Chelsea asked him to, and that was wrong. However he is actually older and more mature than her so understandably thought that that wasn't the right thing to do

How is that not Ben deciding he knows better than Chelsea? I've no idea btw what "understandably" is referring to.

Are you his mother? Because I can't honestly see how else anyone could excuse his behaviour.

Well I've seen other posters both here and on Fb agreeing with me.

I was just imagining them as real people (!) and how it's not as simple as "the mother" vs "the father", there is an age gap, they are not peers in that sense. How much did we work out, two or three years?

People do hear different things according to their viewpoint, I guess!

Absolutely. That’s what’s always made this thread so much fun!

As @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g puts it so elegantly and forcefully in the OP:

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're hoping Ambridge has a pantomime again this year, or other unusual views.

I do hope that spirit still stands?

Place marking! 👋🏼

I feel sorry for Ben, if only because Chelsea has drawn out the process far longer than is good for any of them.

Having an abortion if it goes ahead will be far more traumatic for Chelsea, but also for Ben who has no choice, but who will have access to info on how developed the foetus is.

I'm not sure Ben will actually know that much on a professional level. I think he's doing Adult Nursing, isn't he? So he won't have been doing anything about pregnancy or child development on his course. He will of course be more familiar with the general hospital environment but I'm not sure he should be in any way an expert on pregnancy care and abortions. And as pp said, I can't think of any reason that Beth should know.

I feel sorry for Ben in that he knows he is partially responsible for this situation that no one wanted and that he has no power to solve. He started off being quite reasonably hands-off and leaving it up to Chelsea but I do think that it being dragged out so long is hard on all of us him and that is now showing. If Chelsea had had a TOP at 8 weeks then (probably he wouldn't have known) Ben and Beth could just have got on with their lives. But here he's been stewing over what impact having a baby will have on his life, his relationship and so on. He's been having to mentally prepare for fatherhood even knowing that it might not happen. This is a consequence of having unprotected sex, so you could say it serves him right, but it's still a lot for him to deal with. And he (rightly) has no control over what decision Chelsea makes.

Having said all that I still think he was wrong to turn up at the clinic, and I wish he hadn't told Ruth because now we'll inevitably have to hear her annoying whispery sympathetic voice. I think his weird attack of the vapours last night was a bit over the top but I can understand him wanting someone who was just on his side (his mum, inevitably - Beth is too involved) to tell him that it'll all be okay.

I guess I would have thought Ben and Beth would have googled even if they didn't precisely know? That Beth at least would know that at some point abortions required more than a pill or a D&C?

Does anyone on TA ever use an internet search engine, come to think of it?

I'm sorry but he's talking about marrying one, and he's had sex with the other, so I'd say his feelings are quite relevant, (in different ways)

I agree @jangly. Though characters and posters alike are in total agreement that it should be Chels’ ‘dee-shison’, it seems wrong to dismiss entirely what the father thinks about it all even after a ONS- esp if they are trying to do the right thing.

While I find Ben’s meltdowns tiresome - and now Ruth is involved they will be even more so - I am being tolerant as this SL is clearly going to be used to highlight the poor mental health of young men (and, potentially, the rising suicide rate in this category). The CAs will be providing helpline numbers at the end of the show before we know it…

The Feedback caller quoted yesterday was right in saying that it wasn't enough for Tracy et al to say it was C's decision, without enabling her to find out the relevant information in a timely manner.

I have found it all really irritating. It plays into the antiabortion rhetoric by giving us a woman who treats abortion like some game of chance, who is leaving it until the deadline to make a decision, who needs input from others but finds them just as magically clueless about how abortion is carried out. When the overwhelming majority of women get an abortion as quickly as is possible, and when delays are part of the system itself I feel like how this has been approached is grim. Good job the Archers is known for its successful portrayal of women and women’s issues. If, only…

I was quite moved by yesterday’s episode.

@JanglyBeads , Chelsea and Alstair