Archers thread #141: The nights are drawing in. Can we turn the clocks back to a time when The Archers was fun? Cackle or carp about The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're hoping Ambridge has a pantomime again this year, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Many thanks to @TottersBlankly and @GoldenCupidon for the title suggestions.

Too much to hope, I suppose, that by the time we get to the end of this thread Chelsea's pregnancy is a distant memory and the Horrobins can gear up for a cheap and cheerful Christmas. I really, really hope she doesn't change her mind about the termination. It's a horrible and unrealistic storyline, as most of us have agreed over the past few weeks, but now I just want it to end and be forgotten about.

I do like the idea of Lilian taking on the role of witch in the woods. Much more fun to listen to than Mia sabotaging the Hunt Ball, which is surely bound to go horribly wrong, or the odd wrangling over the stained glass window which we know Peggy won't be contributing to on air , given June Spencer's retirement.

Not a peep out of anybody in Ambridge about all the recent political shenanigans, but that's hardly surprising. Nobody fretting about fuel bills or rampant inflation either.

Also, where's Jenny? I hope Angela Piper's OK.

Over to you!

Jill sounds mostly outraged that she was kept out of things so didn't have a chance to shove her oar in at the time. Quite why she thinks the one night stand's gran gets a say in what Chelsea does with her body, goodness knows.

Because it was 'our' baby!

I had steam coming out of my ears while I was listening to that toxic outburst.

I didn't think it was competely out of character, but suspect that it will push Ben over the edge.

What puzzles me is that Ben's been asking for a while 'does Gran know?' and 'is Gran OK with all this?' and has been lavishly assured by all and sundry, including Leonard, that it's all fine and Jill has no issues with him. Meanwhile she’s always been 'at church' or 'nipped out to Felpersham', ie clearly avoiding him.

So are we to suppose that they were all lying through their teeth just to placate him, or that Jill lied to them until she could confront Ben face to face? Or have I missed a crucial moment where somebody said 'Jill's furious with Ben but whatever we do we mustn’t tell him?'

It's all getting too confusing tbh.

Completely, even. It wasn't Ben's decision to make.
Maybe someone should remind Jill that Elizabeth had a termination, and the Fat Fairchild was a result of Pip not being able to go through with it.
Telling Ben that he was an accident was unforgiveable.

What puzzles me is that Ben's been asking for a while 'does Gran know?' and 'is Gran OK with all this?' and has been lavishly assured by all and sundry, including Leonard, that it's all fine and Jill has no issues with him

Yes, I was puzzled by this too as I couldn’t work out why he hadn’t gone to speak to her himself and instead relied on intermediaries. The close relationship between Ben and his grandmother has been hammered home many times yet when a major crisis in his life hits, he doesn’t confide in her.

I wish Leonard would pop over to my house on a Sunday morning and work through my odd job list.

May be Jill will die while still cross with Ben.

The close relationship between Ben and his grandmother has been hammered home many times yet when a major crisis in his life hits, he doesn’t confide in her. Exactly. This is what does not ring true.

I think the young men I know would feel more relief than all this whatever.

Depends on the young man. My husband is anti abortion. Not in the sense that he would ever stop someone having an abortion, even for the reason of simply not wanting the baby as is the case in this SL - but in the sense that, should someone he had got pregnant choose to have an abortion, he would be very sad as he would see it as a death. When he was a young unmarried so and so, I can see that his reaction might be very much the same as Chelsea’s - telling her it was entirely her decision and he would support her either way, and meaning it, and still being very sad when she chose to terminate.

You mean the same as Ben's to Chelsea....

@LillianGish I agree with your points. Is someone going to mention Elizabeth's abortion? How exactly was Jill about that, I can only vaguely remember? Wasn't a massive falling out, was it?

What puzzles me is that Ben's been asking for a while 'does Gran know?' and 'is Gran OK with all this?' and has been lavishly assured by all and sundry, including Leonard, that it's all fine and Jill has no issues with him

They've all been careful not to tell him things (like Vince and the solar panel loan) to "protect" him, and possibly they told Jill the basics but no details. Whatever actually happened, great communication and not making assumptions have not been part of it.

Maybe Beth will reappear pregnant in time for Jill to die happy.

Academic really as my grandparents died decades ago, but if my family all lived in the same village/houses and worked together I would like to think that either my siblings or my parents would say "your gran is mighty miffed but we'll deal with that".

I'm not sure how they are going to manage to keep Leonard in the cast unless he never leaves the B&B room, but I hope he stays a cast member. he seems to be the only one talking sense over at Brookfield.

I wonder whether he could take up birdwatching and get befriended by Jim.

When IS the Hunt Ball - I'm fed up with Mia's plotting!

When IS the Hunt Ball - I'm fed up with Mia's plotting!

I think in yesterday's episode she said it was "this week", so maybe Friday?

Hunt Ball plotting is in a mess already, after their getting caught in Elizabeth's office.

Brad and Mia trying to sneak into Elizabeth’s office seems frankly stupid when we’ve so recently had the Tracy and Jazzer scenario at GG. Presumably Brad doesn’t know exactly what got his mother into trouble there, or why she missed out on a bonus. But he surely does know about Chelsea and the car ‘keying’. There’s no way he would be contemplating the sort of trouble Mia wants to drag him into.

Stupid?

Tracy is a middle aged woman who must have worked for many bad bosses. She would know the score.

But- She knowingly went to a notoriously bad workplace (chicken factory) and immediately pestered them with health and safety shit.

I should probably have said “stupidly lazy on the part of the SW”!

I'm not sure Jill ever knew that Pip was considering a termination. She was absolutely awful to Elizabeth over hers. As I recall, Elizabeth realised she was pregnant when the morning sickness started. She was living at Brookfield at the time, and I think Jill therefore found out at an early stage. Cameron Fraser, the father, was in big trouble as he was going to be done for fraud (IIRC), so he decided to do a runner, and Elizabeth agreed to go with him. I can't remember if he knew before this that she was pregnant, but he certainly did by the time they stopped at a service station. She went to the loo and when she went back to the car park he'd gone. Elizabeth realised he'd never intended to take her along, and certainly wasn't going to be involved in the baby's life, so she got a taxi back to Brookfield and (as we later found out) booked herself in for a termination.

First the listeners and Jill knew of it was when Elizabeth came back from the clinic and told the family what she'd done. Jill was aghast and made no bones about it, although not quite as cruelly as she spoke to Ben, I would say. I don't remember Phil's reaction, but I'm sure Totters is right and he was much kinder. Elizabeth could always wrap Phil round her little finger.

Shula was also very upset as she was having fertility problems and thought Elizabeth could have had the baby and then handed her/him over to Shula and Mark to adopt.

Ruth then complicated matters all round by announcing she was pregnant with Pip, a few weeks later. One of the very few planned uncomplicated pregnancies in a committed relationship in The Archers!

I can't remember how long it took for Jill and Elizabeth to get back on terms. Clearly they did. It helped a lot that she and Nigel took up together not long afterwards. He knew all about what had happened and was extremely kind and supportive to Elizabeth, whom he adored. (I do miss Nigel.)

Anyway, I'm afraid this outburst to Ben was not out of character at all. I've been expecting it. I imagine the rest of the family assumed Jill was as accepting of what happened as they were. Elizabeth probably didn't, though. Maybe we'll have another confrontation when she finds out what Jill said to Ben.

I actually thought yesterday that Ben owned the decision a lot more than he could have. Essentially it wasn't his choice to make and he went along with what Chelsea decided without revealing what he thought either way. But last night he did say to Jill that they weren't ready for a baby, they were too young and had other plans, and that it was a completely different situation from when he was conceived. In an ideal world, that would prompt him to realise that the abortion was what they both wanted and so to move on a bit from the depression. I doubt it though.

Jill was vile. I'm pro-life/anti-abortion, but she's giving us a bad name with the implication that we'd shove our unwelcome opinions into a situation where they couldn't possibly help and go around insulting and criticising.

I agree @Fink.

Normal Jill may have been unhappy, but upon hearing from Leonard /Ruth/David how upset and low Ben was she'd have sympathised, expressed her views but been clear he was entitled to his own, and given him space to talk.

Well, yes, what on earth did Jill think her little rant achieved? Ben can hardly make the abortion unhappen, and if Chelsea had gone ahead with the pregnancy there's no guarantee that Ben's family would have played any part in the baby's life anyway. So what does it achieve making him feel even worse than he does already?

Would all those complaining about Ben crying feel the same if he were a girl?

A girl wouldn't have impregnated Chelsea.