Archers thread #140: Changing rooms at Brookfield with Leonard Llewellyn-Bowen, or saving souls with St Smugula in the heathen wastelands of the North? Discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think a stained glass window marking the birth of newborn twins is just what Ambridge needs, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Title composed in haste, making use of @Octothorpe's lovely coinage of Leonard Llewellyn-Bowen and @TheLassWiADelicateAir's terrific description of St. Smugula's mission to the heathen wasteland of far flung Sunderland, both from the last thread

I've abandoned the use of an emoji in the title, having been alerted by another thread recently to the fact that it makes it difficult for people with visual problems to use assistive software.

I won't say much more about The Archers, as I'm still feeling extremely jaundiced about the programme at the moment. Fingers crossed it takes a turn for the better over the next few days. It was good to hear Helen, Lee and Joy again tonight. Less delighted to hear the loathsome George. What a numpty not to recognise pheasant chicks! His Dad would be far from impressed.

Over to you!

Well I'll moan. I'm fed up hearing Tracey and Jazzer. I hate his accent at the best of times but there's been far too much of it recently. This dreary story has sidelined almost all other characters apart from the awful "comic relief" interludes.

I want Denise back and she and Alastair to realise they are made for each other. More Jim too.

I want to know how Roy, Adil and Kirsty are getting on and what's happening to the renovations at GG.

I like Kate - Kate being ridiculous and being put in her place is always good value.

I want Mick to be quickly unmasked as the bad 'un he most certainly is before he does real damage to Joy. I'd like someone to remember about Johnny.

I want to hear from Brine, JD and Ruari.

I'd even be interested to hear about Alice and Chris

Lillian is always awful. She's so one dimensional.

That was just filler tonight. I don't care if Chelsea has her brat or not- I just don't want to hear anything more from the Horrobins for a very long time.

I enjoyed tonight's ep, especially Kate's discomfort.

I don't think Jazzer is gormless at all.

Neither do I. I think he has some intelligence and sensitivity, and he's so likeable. He's kind to animals.

We'll hear Brine & JD when the Ruairí SL blows up.

Yes, enough of the Horrobins for a while, please. I'd also been wondering where Rex (I realise he's back now) and Adil were.

Will catch up with the witch episode tomorrow.

I have a vague feeling late terminations have to be on a hospital site. Absolutely hate this storyline. It's all a bit Jude the obscure. Presume the point is actually going to be to do a storyline on male mental health, using female reproductive choices to that end is just crass. But I think that's where we're going with Ben suffering all over the place

Definitely feeling cheated out of 13 minutes of soil chat over here. Why have an event to share the report and not drill into the details.

Still, agree with the boops.
What's Kirsty's course?

Nothing wrong with Gill as a name. It was how my mother spelt it.

Well all I’m going to say is thank god Halloween isn’t far away, as I can only stand so much Lilian cackle at the best of times. Can one die from exuberant hammy cackling 🤔

I'm fed up hearing Tracey and Jazzer. I hate his accent at the best of times but there's been far too much of it recently

Hear! Hear!

I hate Tracey's voice nowadays. I've realised how much I like RP even though I don't speak that way myself!

Nothing wrong with Gill as a name. It was how my mother spelt it.

But it's not Jill,and it is Jill Archer, just as my mother was Kathy not Cathy or Kathie or any other version. (All our Gills at work are Gill, but I've known Jills too.)

I liked Kate saying she couldn't be a witch, because withches are evil, and she's not. Has she never heard of acting? Also, self-awareness...

I liked the witch-evil bit too, especially since it was to Lilian, whom she later cornered in the bathroom to persuade her to take over (essentially because 'you're my aunt and I don't want to do it myself but I need to butter Kirsty up') thus implying that, unlike Kate, Lilian was wicked. No self-awareness, no tact, and no concept of 'acting' ... that's our Kate!

About the names, I feel I should apologise for spelling Lilian with two ls last night. I'm generally good on Jill, Lynda et al, but I tend to forget the l-count in Lilian and the no-e Tracy. Mea culpa.

I enjoyed last night's episode too, even though usually I don't really like Lillian. Kate is always good value even when she's awful.

I think the Horrobin Problem is actually due to the SWs' style of story boarding now - I don't know if it's changed but nowadays it seems like they bash us over the head with a storyline to the exclusion of almost anything else until we're begging for it to stop. Then they move onto the next thing. I feel like previously we had more threads of storylines going along at the same time, whereas now it's one storyline + inconsequential filler. It compounds the fact that we don't hear from some characters for months and I'm not sure if that's an editorial decision or budget-related. I don't like it though.

It doesn't help that this actual SL is also wildly unlikely but I think the characters involved are all doing their best. I also can believe that Chelsea would have difficulty making her mind up. But maybe for two weeks, not ten! And given that this is Jazzer's first crisis in loco parentis (some might argue the first where he's been required to be an actual grown-up) I think he's done pretty well.

I knew at some point Jazzer would start with inanities about "a bairn" etc, etc.

Last night's pontificating has made me dislike him even more. He hasn't kept his thoughts to himself. I was suspicious that the comment earlier in the week about it never being too late to change her mind was driven by that agenda.

I don't know. I've never been in Chelsea's position but a week before my wedding my godfather reminded me that I could change my mind if I had any doubts (I didn't). He said "even half an hour before is better than regret afterwards". It didn't mean he didn't like my husband (not sure he had much of an opinion on him at all), just that he was looking out for me and checking I was okay.

I didn't hear Jazzer as trying to influence Chelsea. Just that he knew she had struggled with the decision and wanted to reassure her that she could still change her mind if it felt wrong, even though she had finally nailed her colours to the mast, so to speak.

But then I don't dislike him as much as you do @TheLassWiADelicateAir - I hated the GG sex storyline but it doesn't make him a sex pest in my eyes, just someone who made a (SW-influenced) bad decision. I think he's been pretty good with Chelsea. He's not her stepdad - she's surely far too old for that. He's relating to her as an adult albeit one over whom he has some level of authority by virtue of being her mum's partner.

I also think it's realistic for him to be reflecting on his 'missed chance' to be a father, given that it now looks as though he will never have children of his own. You don't always know you want something until it's no longer an option. He has certainly kept his opinions to himself when she's around as far as I remember.

I rather liked how Tracey gave Jazzer space to express his own views on Chel’s pregnancy. He has been very careful not to push his opinions/own agenda throughout this which must have been quite difficult.

J wouldn’t suit me (even now, post-Webster). Poor T being treated to beans on toast (I know it’s cheap and filling but that would be quite a low point for me). Having said that, I like J very much and think he is kind, which is why I was so cross about the hotel room scene. I don’t believe he would ever have compromised T’s job in that way.

Agree with the Boops for Lilian (finally) embracing the fact she sounds like a witch. Does this Halloween fun mean we will get a reprieve from the panto - rehearsals should have started by now, surely? Goodness - were the Dreary Mysteries only last year? Please don’t let’s have an am-dram SL this Christmas…

I would rather have spaghetti hoops. Or may be tinned ravioli if they still make it.

@Dashdotdotdash , but Jill Archer is Jill not Gill. Gill is usually short for Gillian, and shortened named have a slightly different vibe. Lots of people's names can have different spellings, but AFAIK, it matters. I don't like it when people misspell names - interestingly most of the posters slagging off celebs can't even get the names right but have plenty to say about Megan, Cordon, Lilly and co.

As I said, Jill is a Jill and Lynda is a Lynda.

I definitely agree with EBearhug on Cathy and Kathy. Kathy is Kathy Perks or someone, Cathy is Cathy Earnshaw. Kate/Cate/Cait are used as names but have a different feel, as do Caitlin/Katelyn, Catherine/Katharine/Katherine, Iain/Ian, Rory/Ruari/Ruairidh, Neil/Neal etc

The Tracy/Tracey doesn't bother me, or Alistair/Alastair, because the vibe is the same for me.

Anyway, that's enough of me pontificating. I look forwards to hearing Bryan, Gennifer and Rory again.

Maybe we could hear from Robyn, and a bit more about Jim tending Marc's grave.

His presence added nothing practical other than pandering to his own idea that he's a good guy - his presence ensured that Tracy now knows who the father is. I agree, it was entirely unrealistic that he would turn up - especially having already run the idea past Chelsea and her having said no I'll be fine. This is now coming across as a story of Ben wanting to out himself as the father and making it all about him. This dreary story has sidelined almost all other characters apart from the awful "comic relief" interludes. this with knobs on. I'm happy that it served the purpose of unmasking Russ - though that is now beginning to feel utterly contrived since it wasn't actually him. Chelsea gets pregnant, doesn't realise until too late, Ben's the father would have been just about acceptable (but wouldn't have got rid of Russ). I hate being able to see all the nuts and bolts of the plot. I want to believe it's real.

"and sometimes, for a treat, I have a baked potato".
Saw 2 yellow cars on Sunday.

Jazzer has been great with Chelsea IMO. The delivering Marthyr must have had an effect on him and he's not in any way imposed his thoughts on Chelsea.
Sometimes, it does help to know that you can opt out when making a big decision.

Love Jazzer, he is a genuine and kind person.

@Roysnewshirt yes they do still make tinned ravioli!

He's relating to her as an adult albeit one over whom he has some level of authority by virtue of being her mum's partner.

Eh? Why on earth should being ( the latest in the long line of) Tracey's boyfriend give Jazzer any level of authority over Chelsea?

He's been useless with Chelsea.

It's just another version of the Ben "I'm really a good guy" self promotion. Having this "bairn" is a terrible decision. Wittering on about "never too late to change your mind" is terrible advice at this stage- especially given his now clear agenda.

I was replying to a post saying Gill isn't a nice name, not giving any view about Jill Archer.

He's been useless with Chelsea.
What should he have done? He's just yet another in a long line of Chelsea's mum's boyfriends, after all.

There are other SL going on in the background, there's the church window, Mick and Joy etc, but I agree with Prestissimo, about there usually being one SL dominating until we're sick of it.