Archers thread #140: Changing rooms at Brookfield with Leonard Llewellyn-Bowen, or saving souls with St Smugula in the heathen wastelands of the North? Discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think a stained glass window marking the birth of newborn twins is just what Ambridge needs, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Title composed in haste, making use of @Octothorpe's lovely coinage of Leonard Llewellyn-Bowen and @TheLassWiADelicateAir's terrific description of St. Smugula's mission to the heathen wasteland of far flung Sunderland, both from the last thread

I've abandoned the use of an emoji in the title, having been alerted by another thread recently to the fact that it makes it difficult for people with visual problems to use assistive software.

I won't say much more about The Archers, as I'm still feeling extremely jaundiced about the programme at the moment. Fingers crossed it takes a turn for the better over the next few days. It was good to hear Helen, Lee and Joy again tonight. Less delighted to hear the loathsome George. What a numpty not to recognise pheasant chicks! His Dad would be far from impressed.

Over to you!

A warm welcome to you @DysgwrCymraeg . I hope your DS listens to TA too. I understand the significance of the ecru jumper. I prefer a cardigan myself.

Chelsea to have the baby, Tracy and Jazzer bring it up as their own. Maybe even marry.
perhaps

I haven't listened to two days' worth yet, but my money is on @Minimammoth . They'll formally adopt but that stupid storyline about Tracy pretending she's pregnant will make it believable to credulous yokels.

What's unbelievable, even to credulous yokels (especially ones who spend their time around pregnant animals) is that nobody has commented on Chelsea's weight gain, not even Mia when they were laying into each other's hair, make up and so on. She surely must have a noticeable bump by now, or if she's hiding it with baggy clothes then at least she must look generally a bit large. What is she now, 20 weeks?

I agree @TeenDivided.

I wish this thread was less aggressive and could go back to its previous more pleasant tone. It feels very repetitive and negative.

Harrison, Lily, Freddy (and probably Elizabeth) Susan (and probably Neil) Jim, Alastair, Natasha, Ben, Beth, Josh and Pip know Chelsea is pregnant.

The SWs can't seriously think all of these people will keep quiet? Is Tracey going to wear a strap on bump and send Chelsea to live with her father until it's born?

I don't think there's any possibility of her having an abortion. She's getting on for 20 weeks pregnant. Why would a clinic make her wait another week when she'd left it so late. The process gets worse every day. At 20 weeks they will administer a feticide.

The pointless and random conversation tonight between Rex and Ruth was setting up Ruth for a revelation about Ben.

If by some miracle Chelsea has an abortion is Tracey going to have a "miscarriage". That's a nasty story line- I can see poor, kind Kirsty offering sympathy and condolences.

To be fair, with my first I didn't have a bump until about 24/25 weeks.

This is where Tracy would have been better off (and not just financially) with Oliver. Jazzer, for all his sweet nature and kindness to animals, is a child when it comes to taking an adult role in family life. Oliver’s been married twice, has daughters, has fostered children - and has a more secure knowledge of the world in general. He’d probably have pursued a more robust approach towards Chelsea’s decision-making and coaxed her into doing everything more quickly.

(It’s very annoying, there was a very informative and beautifully illustrated guide to the developing foetus in, perhaps, The Times, a few days ago. I almost posted it here but hesitated because I assumed the info would seem patronising on MN. And now I can’t find the article.)

I know of a 17 Yr old who hid a pregnancy all the way through and gave birth in the bathroom without her parents knowing until it was over. The father gave her money for an abortion but she used it to buy baby things. The baby will be in her late 40s now.

I can think of more than one girl or young woman who had a baby without knowing she was pregnant. One of them was living at home, and her mother had gone out. The girl's DM was called to go at home because the daughter had agonising stomach pains. By the time she got home, she was a grandmother. None of them had a clue.

A friend didn't find out she was pregnant until 23 weeks.

I haven't listened to last night's yet, but I really don't think it would be a good idea to start talking about the developing foetus in the context of a storyline about late terminations.

Also, Totters, I know you were desperate for Tracy and Oliver to get together, but really? What would they have had in common? And isn't Oliver about 30 years older than Tracy?

Anyway. Off out now with every digit crossed that this thread doesn't take fire this morning so I will have time to start the new one at around lunchtime.

I’ve got a friend who apparently didn’t realise she was pregnant until she went into (premature) labour. You honestly couldn’t tell she was, she’d put on a bit of weight but more looking as if she’d had a lot of chips and beer. She’s not at all stupid either. If you don’t get normal/regular periods for whatever reason I guess it’s easily missed occasionally.

I had a patient once who came to see me because she felt a bit bloated (although didn't look it, particularly) and recently had started having sharp pains as if someone was kicking her in the ribs. She was 29weeks...

Diolch yn fawr, @IILoveShula! O'n i'n mor gyffrous i weld dy ateb yn gymraeg a diolch am y croeso i'r sgwrs. Thank you @IILoveShula. I was so excited to see your answer in Welsh, and thank you for the welcome to the thread!

Is Ruth going to want to persuade Chelsea not to terminate??

Could Peggy Woolley do better than this?
planets

I doubt it-why do you think that?

Ruth is annoying but she doesn't strike me as someone who's desperate to be a grandmother or overly- sentimental about babies.

I think a storyline is being set up for something (either an explanation of why Ben is so miserable or that Ruth has another grandchild on the way) to be revealed shortly to Ruth.

For all her faults I'd be surprised if Ruth were anti-abortion. She thinks of herself as a pragmatic person so if anything I think she'll see this as the disaster it will be for Ben and Chelsea to be parents.

I wish this thread was less aggressive and could go back to its previous more pleasant tone. It feels very repetitive and negative.

Have you been on these Archers threads long?

''Twas ever thus, as they say. I've been on and off these threads for years and they often grow combative and even personal at times. Baffling to me, personally, but... I think some are also very invested in the characters (not thinking of Jazzer here, particularly) and dislike criticism of them.

General negativity is understandable, in my opinion, as the SLs have been dire recently. Didn't someone liken TA to Eastenders!

I can't see Ruth trying to persuade Chelsea not to terminate. She'd have to come up with some support plan for the baby if so. Ben is doing a demanding nursing degree - she can't commit him to either the time or the expense of a baby without his explicit consent. David and Ruth paying a realistic amount of child support running into the thousands every year? Offering nonogenarian Jill as a childminder?

In response to my thing saying I found it unlikely that Chelsea wasn't showing at all yet, it's not so much that no one ever develops a late bump/no bump, it's more that almost everything about Chelsea's pregnancy has been exceptional. All things that can happen from time to time, but so unlikely that they'd all happen to the same person:

1. she took the MAP and it failed. That in itself is massively unlikely.
2. she's known about the pregnancy for ages but is still having a late-term abortion
3. she isn't showing, not even general weight gain
4. she had no ante-natal care until well into the second trimester, has taken no vitamins, as far as we can see hasn't looked after herself or the baby especially, and yet when she did finally see a midwive there didn't appear to be any concerns raised over any of this
5. her only noticeable symptom has been mid-second trimester tiredness (daytime naps). A time at which most women would feel the least tired (compared to other stages of pregnancy rather than generally).

It's not the lack of a bump per se, it's that the whole thing seems to have been written by somone who's never been near a pregnant woman, a woman contemplating termination, or possibly any woman at all.

she had no ante-natal care until well into the second trimester, has taken no vitamins, as far as we can see hasn't looked after herself or the baby especially, and yet when she did finally see a midwive there didn't appear to be any concerns raised over any of this
**
To be fair, what ante- natal care does a healthy, non-drinking, non-smoking under 40 woman who eats a reasonable diet need? I'm not sure what you mean by "looked after herself or the baby especially". I didn't take any vitamins.

Well, possibly not a lot if you generally look after yourself. But Chelsea was 17, not an age renowed for its clean living, generally. As far as we know, she lived off custard creams and sugary cereal, with occasional excursions into baked beans (or garlic mushrooms for a treat). And we don't know whether she drinks or smokes, as far as I remember.

She should have been eligible for a Healthy Start card; even if she doesn't want it, it would ease the pressure on family finances. They probably would take it away now that she's turned 18, but there might be some discretion, I don't know.

It's nearly 30 years since I was last pregnant so I am not up to speed but as far as I can recall this was before women trying to conceive and in the early stages of pregnancy were advised to take folic acid to reduce the risk of the baby having spina bifida. I did, however, have blood tests and ultrasound to identify various other risks. I turned out to be anaemic and had to take iron. In my second pregnancy I had a glucose tolerance test (because my first baby was 9lbs+) and was considered borderline diabetic, so had to pinprick tests and have extra check ups from that point on. There were other things too. I am deeply risk averse so was happy to go along with all of this.

It's one thing to go through pregnancy and birth at a time or in a place where health care is so basic that problems can't be spotted at an early stage. Quite another to just opt out of all check ups and possibly end up with a much more serious problem as a result.

New thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4664895-archers-thread-141-the-nights-are-drawing-in-can-we-turn-the-clocks-back-to-a-time-when-the-archers-was-fun-cackle-or-carp-about-the-archers-here