👑 Archers thread #139: Who’s the Daddy? No ceremonial required to join us – discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you like the sound of Lilian’s Cinnamon Chicken, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

I'm often struck by the time a thread ends how irrelevant the previous title has become to what's currently going on in The Archers. The Queen's death has only been mentioned very briefly in TA, of course, but I suppose that was to be expected in a time of budget constraints. In a few weeks when this thread fills up I wonder if we will still be thinking that, and about Chelsea and her pregnancy. That depends on what she decides to do, which at the time of writing is still up in the air.

As usual, I asked for title ideas and for various reasons then didn't use them. Sorry. Lillian Gish's was very witty - Will Chelsea stay mum about dad? Muddler made a more controversial one - Horrobins thread #139. As a new Great House of Ambridge emerges, come swear your allegiance here.

That's about all I can face saying about TA at the moment. I am expecting to have to travel north soon as my Dad is in hospital and I have to be with my Mum. (They're the same sort of age as Jill Archer, and up to now have been like her and Peggy, very active, managing very well with no help, but this may all be about to change ). So apologies if I'm more absent than present for a while. Will pop in when I can.

I know you didn't mean financially poor. I still find it very patronising to see Chelsea in that way.

Kenton and David are the Colin Robertson of Ambridge.

For any one who hasn't seen What We Do in the Shadows.

Colin Robinson (one should always use his full name) is an invention exclusive to the TV version of Shadows. As an “energy vampire”, Colin Robinson does not have fangs or drink blood. Instead, he feeds on the life force of others by simply exhausting them with bad jokes, long diatribes no one cares about, and a superhuman lack of urgency in all things. Anything a person can do to make your eyes glaze over is his specialty, and once they do, he feeds.

Although Colin Robertson is actually more interesting than either of them.

Going against the grain I really enjoyed parts of the David and Kenton dialogue tonight, it’s a sibling relationship I can believe in. I also like David’s voice when he’s not being boring about his farm (nearly always) or talking to his awful wife or daughter. Kenton’s a good actor too, I can’t imagine him as an actor really as he’s such a type of the middle aged “lad” who’s spent his life roaming about and has never really grown up.

I liked Tracey and Len too.

Many posters used to cheer on Matt Crawford. He was absolutely foul. I couldn't see the attraction at all. What he did to Christine Barford was far worse than anything Russ has done.

The thing is, the whole Christine thing and everything around his disappearance was really a bit of a character transplant. Before that he was basically a rough diamond type who was the idea foil for Lilian, and was pretty similar to Vince. I don't think people cheered him on after he went rogue.

I'd love it if Lily had a good think about this and why she was so ready to believe Russ would have had a fling with a 17 year old. Then when he magnanimously decides to forgive her so that he can continue living off her mother, she can say "You know what? I've realised that I just don't trust you, so I take back all those apologies and you can move the rest of your stuff out now."

Thanks @JanglyBeads - thought I’d missed something significant there

I don't think Tess knew enough to know what she was or wasn't consenting to, and therefore, if she did consent, it wasn't valid; I am pretty certain Chelsea would have. Also, Alec D'Urberville was a self-entitled arse, as could Chelsea's be, as we don't know who it is,but she doesn't seem the type to put up with too much shit. Tess was hopelessly naive (not the only Dorset farming girl to be so, says one from 100 years after her,) but Chelsea has her head screwed on.

@TheHideAndSeekingHill yeah, I agree with you on reflection. The whole ‘Josh - move out in 20 seconds on your birthday’ and the subsequent diary thing were both really silly, but in general, one of my favourite things is the interactions between the (older) archers siblings. For example - I’ve always loved how Kenton calls David ‘Dave’ when literally no one else does 😆

And Shula leaving - I know we’ve had some nonsense with David and Kenton talking about a present for her etc but it’s only this week Kenton has been really honest - his realisation that Shula might not be around for him was really well done - wasn’t there a really obvious line where he went ‘yeah but I’ve never been here when she isn’t’ (we know he was in the navy for years, so it was very ironic and also really sweet). it’s really believable they are all siblings - David’s rubbish attempts at supporting Kenton were really well drawn (even though I found them painfully dull at the time).

i suppose the sibling missing in all this is Elizabeth though… I’d love to know what she thinks about Shula’s new career, but suspect we’ll hear from her wrt Lily and Russ in due course…

Oh my goodness yes they really are Colin Robertson, so dull!

Going against the flow, but I too quite like David and Kenton.
The SW often borrow sub-plots from literature.

The Lillian/Justin/Lynda thing seems to me to be nothing more than a way of making Lillian rue the day she urged Justin to make more of an effort with Lynda. I think it's supposed to be funny - Lynda was Lillian's friend and now she's being monopolised by Justin. It's all rather wearing - such a load of nonsense when we only have a 13 minute window on Ambridge. I'd much rather listen to what's happening at Bridge Farm or find out how Ed and Emmur are coping with the cost of living squeeze or just about anything - Lynda can be amusing and effective in small doses, but this feels like overkill. I don't like Justin as a character because he's too inconsistent and therefore unbelievable - swinging between amiable country gent in the style of Oliver Sterling to ruthless businessman depending on the requirements of the plot. Yesterday felt like a bit of filler to stave off the denouement of the Chelsea pregnancy storyline and the fallout at LL which is exactly what it was.

I think she was dazzled by him and believed he loved her. She consented because she was naive and didn't understand the full picture IMO. Alec was a cad but would have supported her financially if he had known she was pregnant. I think Angel Clare was a complete bastard.

Poor poor Tess 😢

She should also have listened to her mother and not told Angel about her past. It was a harsh world and she couldn't survive without the support of a man. None of that applies to Chelsea obviously.

I assume you are referring to borrowing from Tess or David Copperfield for Chelsea? (which I don't think they are and does Chelsea a disservice to think that ) rather than borrowing from What We Do In The Shadows for the energy vampires of Ambridge?

The latter borrowing however seems to me the one which has happened.

I think Lily was groomed by Russ. She was a vulnerable young woman, and Russ was in a position of power and responsibility. Hearing her begging him not to leave was horrible.

All the talk of the bond between Shula and Kenton and their twiness feels like we are being prepared for a storyline. It could just be Shula leaving, but could there be more?

Tess of the D'Urberville's is the only book which has ever made me shout out loud at a character.

Unfortunately, at the time, I was reading it on a campsite in France and the Dutch man on the next pitch was quite startled when I suddenly yelled "Oooh you shit!!"

He avoided me for the rest of the holiday.

I'm just confused by The Archers these days.

Why is Justin fundraising? He could just write a big fat cheque. Who does business schmoozing in a kitchen (even if it does have a boiling water tap)!

The Justin we heard yesterday must have about 100th of the financial clout of the man as originally portrayed. How has he gone from haughty oligarch with homes and business interests across the globe to tweedy dabbler in parish-level fundraising? How has he made his world so small?

Bleak will get a job at the dog centre

Justin's finances have long been a mystery. He seems to be portrayed both as mega-rich globetrotter and as relatively wealthy squire, possibly depending on which SW/editor is in charge. It has irritated me for years. At the moment, he's going through a longish period of seeming to be roughly equivalent to Brian pre-selling off the naice house scandal, but I'm sure one day the SWs will remember his mega bucks and use them in a storyline.

I wondered whether all the stuff with Kenton and David was a set up to show two Brookfield Archer brothers reminiscing and getting on well, and then Josh and Ben will feature soon in some kind of awful drama over Chelsea.

And have they forgotten about the mysterious lunch date with Justin and Hannah (Do I mean Hannah?!).

Because I imagine many listeners have!

It feels like a scene from something else entirely, it's never been developed or referenced in any way.

I think you mean Stella @JanglyBeads

Oh yes!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/what_were_reading/1493155-Why-is-Angel-Clare-more-detestable-than-Alec-Durberville

As one might expect the "is Angel Clare the worst character in literature" has been considered on MN