Anyone regretted move from state to private?

[BridesheadRegardless]

Hi, we are thinking of doing ths for our DS2.

He is 6yrs, a very young 6, in Yr2, and was not ready for school when he started.

He has been given an IEP to address his literacy which is lagging behind, but we feel the school are not sufficiently addressing this and he feels that he is the 'rubbishiest' in his class.

So, there is a local priavte school which will take him into a Yr1 class of 10 pupils and give him extra support. We will be commiting to privete ed long term by holding him back a year but I think this is the biggest help he could have and the advantage of being the oldest instaed of the youngest will be HUGE for him.

Anyone done similiar and found it's out of frying pan onto the fire? Or encountered problems I haven't thought of?

All opinions and advice greatfully received.

Haven't done this myself, but have got to know several families who moved their DCs to my DC's prep, and none have regretted. All cite the smaller class sizes and greater attention as having benefitted their children. And, as you have found, private schools can be more flexible as regards age/class. One thing I would caution though. There are a few children - generally late summer birthdays - that I know of who are in the 'year below' (the school never puts children up a year). One child last year found it quite hard to get into a secondary school - (I suspect for a number of reasons though) and the mother of another is thinking of moving him at Year 3 to a school that goes up to 18. Of course the school you are considering might have a secondary section in any case, and if so no problem at all. If it is a prep then I would have a brief discussion with them about the attitudes of the schools it 'feeds' to concerning 'out of year' children (apparently one 'problem' is that they cannot be entered in those ludicrous league tables, but then most sensible schools wouldn't care).

Best wishes with whatever you decide and I hope that your son soon feels a lot happier - it really is tough for kids who are young for the year.

Thanks Bellisima.

It is only a primary we are considering sending him too, so I am aware that there may then be difficultes with him being out of his year group at transfer. I am going to look tomorrow at the seconadry private school we hope he could eventually transfer to and to discuss with them thier attitiude to taking chldren in Yr7 out of year.

This school does also take at primary age so one option is to put him there now to ensure he can continue all the through out of year, but the disadvantge here is it is quite far away so it would mean a long journey every morning on a bus whch we feel would be OK at seconadry but it would be good to be more local at primary.

We do need to think this through seriously. I KNOW that it would be the best thing for him edcuationally to be held back a year, in fcat I think if this were to happen all his 'diffiuclties' would pretty much disppear over night, but obvioulsy we don't want to be storing up a problem for a few years time.

I can totally see why you're worried. Is he happy at school though? If he has lots of friends and you broadly like the school I'd say think twice about it as it's a big thing to move a child away from a place he's happy with and a risk if it doesn't work out. If the school really aren't sorting his literacy that does sound bad, but you could maybe choose a private tutor rather than a completely new school?

He is happy enough to go in the morning, but saying he is the 'rubbishiest' indicates me to me that his current situation is damaging his self esteem, and that if he continues all through this primary with this belief than this could be a hard self image to break.

the primary has a very rigid 'group' system and he knows he is at the bottom of the bottom. the school are 'supporting' him but I don't feel that they are doing enough to accelerte his progress so that he can 'catch up' with the bright nearly a year older childern in the class.

I feel that a small class, of 10, in a Yr 1 group would give him loads more input and help his confidenec as he's be at the same level as everyone else.

essentailly we'd be buying him the advantage of being the oldest in the class instead of his current disadvateged position.

Also, he has a tutor once a week, a lovely lady, who does great work with him and works on boosting his self esteem as well, BUT I know that an hour once a week is not going to make sufficient difference, it needs to be every day at school, and basiclly his class are always going to be working just beyond his level. A horrible position for a child to be in.

So sad that he's been made to feel that way. You're right that's awful. What do the school say when you tell them that? If they're not concerned about it, or aren't proactive then I'd definitely move him as it's a rubbish school.

yeah well it's an 'Outstanding school' actaully!!

Which seems to also mean a rigid and a 'we get good results doing things the way we've always done' them attitude, regardless of the impact of this on the children.

It does get good results, and the children are well behaved, things I thought very imporatant when I choose it, but now I feel there is also a 'hardness' and a lack of empathy there also, and suddenly I don't care so much about SAT results.

I'm also beginning to question their high results anyway. I have a son in Yr5 also at this school who got level 3's at Yr2 SATs, but I don't think this was his true level really. And I know that in Yr 6 they just focus entirely on the SATs and it's miserable for the children that year.

I think you should definitely look at the long term implications of keeping him down a year, both in terms of the impact on secondary school admissions and the effect it might have on him in the future by removing him from his peer group.

I moved DD from state to private and she is still absolutely aware of who is the best and who the 'rubbishest' in her new small class.

Unless you can guarantee that he will be ahead of, or at the level of, his new classmates, you won't solve the problem of academic hierarchy.

Obviously I can't guarentee anything, but I do strongly believe that if he were in a group where he was the oldest instead of the youngest he would be given an advantage and be more likely to working at a similiar level to the majority of his class, rather than leaing him stryggling behind tjose who are older and clever. Double whammy.

Children will always be awre of who is the 'rubbishiest' but I'm wanting to put DS in a positon where he has a better chance of not being the rubbishiest.

I can see the potential diffiuclties with secoandry transfer, but what would you see as the other effects it could have on him in the future by removed from his peer group? Do you mean his current peer group at his present school or do you mean being out of his year group?

'Buying him the advantage of being the oldest in his class' as you put it may work in the short-term, or even in the long-term but there's no guarantee that he won't be in a class of children younger than him who are working at a higher level which may make him feel even worse.

I think last week you posted about the rigid group system in his current school and were wondering about a move to a different state school - although they would be highly unlikely to put him in a year group below his chronological one there may be local schools that have composite classes e.g. Y1 and Y2 together which is something that may work for him. The other thing to consider if you move to the private system is that if his literacy difficulties continue you may find it difficult to secure additional support for him as the private schools won't have access to the LA agencies.

If you've decided to move schools I'd definitely look around both state and private - he needs a school that will make him feel good about what he can do and help him to progress with the things he can't yet do.

There are no guarantees I know, but I also know he is working at the level of a year 1 child (on reading book levels for end of year 1) but of course in his class presently most children are older and working 6mths to a year ahead of this.

So no guarentees, but I think, he should have started school one year later and he is at a Year 1 level, so he would be at least average in a year 1 class.

I do not think at at at all that his levels will require LA agencies.

It seemsto me that given the choice between struggling at the bottom throughtout primary or beingin a class wher you are at least averege, is not a hard dilemma for most paremts. The dilemma comes that to do this you have to pay for it as the LEA schools do nt generally allow this.

I have wished for many years that we had the Scottish system of choice in delaying starting school for summer birthdays. If I'd had that i don't think he, or we, would would in this position now, I think he'd have been doing fine in a class with children at the same developmental level and age group (the age cut off is arbitary, in a Yr1 class he will be 13mths older than even the youngest, there are children nearly 12mths older than him in his current class.)

I think your points on 'outstanding' schools are v.common. Sad isn't it. SE13's got a point, why don't you look at other state schools? The school he's at does sound like it's far from suited to him, and I'd bet other schools would make him feel excited and proud about who he is and what he can achieve.

I meant his year group in general.

As he gets older and catches up, he will always be the kid too old for his year. That may cause him more problems as the legacy of his 'rubbishness' from early days is carried with him. (ie he was kept down a year).

Does that make sense?

It's a kind of label I guess that may be difficult for him later- others will know, especially as he moves to high school.

A mixed yr1/2 class may be a good compromise - you wouldn't get that in a private school though.

What I want about the private school is a class of 11 children, and letting him learn with confidence at a year 1 level.

Apart from secondary transfer issues, which are a big and valid concern, what are the other disadavantges to this?

I am confifenst he will do well in a Year 1 class (but Ok no guarantees) and that this is his actual developmental level. So apart from transfer what are the disadvcantges of being the oldest in a class and doing OK? As opposed to youngest in class and struggling?

We did something similar with dd. It's worked out OK, but she still has low self esteem. I'm not sure if I had my time over I'd do it again.

The absolute difference in levels between what is taught to adjacent years reduces substantially over time (so the difference between year 5 and 6 is small, but there's a big change between year 1 and 2). This means that in time the benefits of being in the younger year will be reduced - the key benefit will be the confidence boost at the start which is not guaranteed - the act of 'moving him down' a year can be very damaging to self esteem in itself, and periodically the issue that 'I should be in the year above, so I must be thick' arises. You need to be sure the benefits will outweigh that.

There is a very big overlap of ability between adjacent year groups, so merrylegs's point about the academic heirarchy is valid.

Sport is another thing to consider. He may get left off teams due to being too old to compete in tournaments (you have to set this against possibly not making the teams in the first place in his correct year due to physical disadvantage of age).

I know of children in this position who have had to move back into state for financial reasons and have then been forced to skip a year. I also know a child who also had to skip a year when the family moved to another part of the country and the new private school had different policies.

It might work out well, but it might not. I would look at alternatives such as homeschooling or flexi-schooling or extra tutoring for a short period of time (1-2 years) to improve his confidence and level of achievement and consider if with such an approach you could keep him in his own year successfully.

Ok, he will turn 7 a few months before his friends, but I don't think this will cause huge issues as many of his friends now turned 7 long before him.

I think it will be a good while before it dawns on him and his friends that september is the cut off point and you shouldn't be reaching your next birthday before this. And when at seconadry this does get noticed I thnk if he is happy and doing well at school it won't be too much of a big deal.

I Really think the obsession with having to have a set and arbitary cut off date, is damaging to many children and is only an administation construct and not anything to do with a childs development, or academic or social levels or needs. Move the arbitary date and hey presto everyone thinks it's OK??

I was held back a year at seconary school (private) as we returened to this country aftre a year of non exixtent education abroad. It was the best thng that ever happened to me educationally.

I struggled thoughout primary, thought I wasn't clver and then 2 yrs into secondary suddenly though 'actually I can do this, I'm good at this' and from then on went on to Alevels/higer degrees etc.

ok I am 40 this year and all my frinds next year but it never really mattered. the success I experienced finally mattered more.

I have very strong views about how too early education and a non flexible starting date is very damaging for many children in this country. I want to avoid my son being damaged by this.

I suppose my concerns would be

a) he comes on leaps and bounds to such an extent that a peer group class would be more appropriate

b) he is still performing below the level of the year 1's and has the double whammy of oldest and least able and no longer under wing of iep/lea

The other thing is, i don't understand how "most" of the class can be 6 months older than him - surely there'll be a range of ages? dd is in year 2 and has july birthday. there are quite a few younger than her, some 10 months older, some 8 and so on.

Also, is the issue purely literacy?

i agree with snorkle. could you perhaps up the tuition if you feel that it is helping?

He would only be 'too old' for the team for the last month of the term.

We wouldn't tell him he was going back a year, and luckily the new school calls Yr1 Infant 2, so class labels will not give this away.

I think the risk of secondary transfer diffiucltes and difficulties of going back to the state sysytem are real potential difficulties though.

I also agree that the differences in year groups will diminish the older he gets, but i think another 18mths of small clases in the infants before tranferring to Juniors would be brilliant for him.

I think transfererribg to the juniors this Sept would be very diffiuclt for him.

If he comes on hugely, he could always move up. If he continues to struggle at least his class will not be not as far ahead of him as they would be in the higher year group.

I really don't think being a couple of months older than the next oldest in the class is going to be an issue with him, at least not for a long time yet.

It's not just literacy, he's year 1 level for most areas.

Private school have IEP's, and I know he is nowhere near the levels wher LA agencies would even consider getting involved.

Most of the class are older. Probably 2 children younger than him, but of course not all are signifcantly older.

It strikes me as ludicrous that children who are the youngest in thier year and may be much more immature than their peers, could then be considered needing LA interevention when the problem can be solved by moving a date.

Typical of a within child model of needs. 'The child needs seeing and has diffiuclties.' No, the system is set in a way which disadvatges him and change the system and the probalem disappears.

I am convinced this is the case for my DS and many mnay others.

I want to avoid this for my DS.

My DC's prep school (south east but not London) hold children back for the year below regularly. We seriously looked into it for DS1 who is an August birthday.

The head teacher said there isn't a problem in our area with independent senior school admissions for kids a year lower. He said there are for London schools, so if we're thinking of a move to London then he wouldn't advise it, but in the rest of the country it isn't an issue (the child will only find it difficult to get a place if they would anyway because of other issues). You should check this with the head of the school you're considering.

In the end we decided to do Reception in the right year and wait and see - he has kept with his correct year group as although behind average with literacy, suddenly started excelling with maths, and school feel that he would get bored in maths if we held him back. Our school have given us great direction with all this, you should choose a school which guides you wisely in this area (it sounds like they probably are).

I really don't understand why being 2 months older than the next oldest child in the class is thought to be such a problem for a child.

Lymond, I am going to check this with the school he would transfer to tomorrwo as this is one of the real concerns I do have.

i think all schools should consider this more, lots of childrens 'difficulties' would probably disppear.

We have done both. We initially moved from state to private and kept her in her correct year group. She is an august baby and also is very much behind her peer group. She has made great improvements but is still behind her class. We are moving house in March and she is moving schools and also moving back to yr 1. Unlike you we have told her but she is happy as she already has lots of friends in year 1, some of whom are nearer to her in age than the rest of her year 2 group (they are ALL Sep-Dec babies!). Her teacher has said she will be in the upper third of year 1 and with help should be able to keep her place in the pecking order. I am hopeful that she will flourish without the stigma of always being the last to be able to do something. She like your son was starting to say she was not clever and was rubbish at school work. She has had her self esteem built up by her present school but there is still a way to go. It is noticeable in things like assembly - for remeberance day the rest of her year 2 group were quoting Wilfrid Owen poems and my angel had to say 'elephants never forget' - that was her reading level in comparison to them. (She did say it with panache though .)