Anyone regretted move from state to private?

[BridesheadRegardless]

Hi, we are thinking of doing ths for our DS2.

He is 6yrs, a very young 6, in Yr2, and was not ready for school when he started.

He has been given an IEP to address his literacy which is lagging behind, but we feel the school are not sufficiently addressing this and he feels that he is the 'rubbishiest' in his class.

So, there is a local priavte school which will take him into a Yr1 class of 10 pupils and give him extra support. We will be commiting to privete ed long term by holding him back a year but I think this is the biggest help he could have and the advantage of being the oldest instaed of the youngest will be HUGE for him.

Anyone done similiar and found it's out of frying pan onto the fire? Or encountered problems I haven't thought of?

All opinions and advice greatfully received.

[smee]

I think MollieO and evensunnier have good points. Just remembered my SIL who teaches in a private prep saying she often can't help the kids who need individual support and there's no extra support available. I'm sure each private school is different, but it's definitely worth checking.

[evensunnierdelight]

If you can do private all the way through I would do it. We put DS2 (dyslexic and really struggling) back a year when we came to Oz and that year made all the difference to him (Y3). The school goes right through to Y12 though, so I knew once he got in he could stay until the end and I wouldn't have to argue about him being out of year going into high school.

I don't think class size is the be all and end all; what you need to look at is the ethos and support offered. Although our school is private the classes aren't particularly small, especially years 3-6. What I consider worth paying for is the difference in attitude - kids who are struggling are nurtured and supported rather than being dumped down the back of the classroom, and I do say that from experience - DS1 was an August born dyslexic child which is a recipe for disaster in the UK.

[MollieO]

It does seem to be a recent thing though. When I was growing up being a summer born was seen as an advantage. My brother is end August and my parents considered it a good thing as he could have an extra year at school if he needed it (he didn't).

If I was making the change you are contemplating I would want to know the specifics of what the private school can offer and exactly how they would support your ds. For example does the class have a TA as well as a teacher? Is the plan to teach ds completely in class or will there be 1:1 as well? What is the cost? (£32/hr at ds's). How often would his progress be reviewed? Who will be involved in supporting him - teacher, TA, SENCO, anyone else? At ds's school some children are referred to a counsellor for emotional issues (thinking of your ds's lack of self esteem).

Don't be blinded by the difference in class size, there is a lot else to question. Your ds has an IEP what will the private school do with this? What is their relationship with the LEA? Will the LEA offer support? (unlikely ime).

[BridesheadRegardless]

Fair points Polly and these would help to ease the differences and difficulties for many children. I still think some flexibility at the discretion and agreement of the parenst and school would really benefit alot of children though.

Mollie, not all summer borns obviously, but a statistically signifcant amount.

Statistically summer borns are likely to do less well academically with the difference diminishing as they rpogress thorugh but still there even at A level.
Less likley to suceed in competive sport (see freakeconomics for intersting chapete on professinal sports peoples birthdays)
More likely to be excluded.
More likey to be referrde to Ed Psych and have SEN.

These things do not happen becuase october born children are intrinsically more clever than summer borns you know.

There are many many exceptions to the rule of course but the bias and disadvantage is clearly there.

[MollieO]

Not all summer borns are behind those who are older in the year. It can be that the older ones are more emotionally immature than the younger ones. It is hard on them as being the oldest they are expected to be more mature when that isn't always the case.

[PollyParanoia]

Yes but brideshead who is supposed to make these decisions about who's a "bright little button" who should go in early and who is whatever the opposite of a bright little button is who should go in late? I think the answer is to be much more supportive of summer borns within the present system. Various ways
a) abolish the two tier entry. In our LEA the post feb birthdays go in a term late. They get a term less of a reception and the older ones are further benefitted by having a term being taught in a class of 15.
b) not set tables as early as they do. This early streaming is bonkers as it seems self-fulfilling. My ds was on a lower table when he started due to coming in a term after the older ones had had a whole term of phonics. He is now on the top table because he's a cocky little sod who is convinced of his own genuis but a more reticent child might have stayed further down for their whole career (and likewise one of those autumn borns might have become clever just because they were told they were early enough)
c) acknowledge the additional difficulties that summer borns may face and give them the necessary support early on (but not in a way that makes them seem like they're on the "rubbishiest table" see point above).
d) all of us acknowledge that children's development is variable in the early years and everyone on mn and in real life ban the phrase "my dd/ds is very bright" if they're younger than 11. They're not bright, necessarily, just developmentally ahead which is mutable.

[rabbitstew]

ps some state schools mix their years, anyway - ie the older half of reception have lessons with the younger half of year 1, etc.

[BridesheadRegardless]

Polly, if the date start date was flexible then decisions could be made on the basis of each childs development and readiness.

So the ready to go bright little buttons would start earlier along side the slightly older but less ready so didn't start last year ones.

yes the age differences would be slightly wider, up to 18mths, but it would reflect the childrens development and not just their age.

You'd only end up in a class with someone 14mths older than you if you were really ready for it and they needed more time.

I don't see how that is unfair on anyone.
Childrens development varies that much in the early years.

the children in his current class are only his 'peers' due to arbitary cut off date. In reality the child in his class who is 6mths older is no more his peer than the child in the year below who is 6mths younger.

Rabbitstew I understand what you are syaing about another state school, and if I could turn back the clock that's what I'd do choose a diferrent state school, but now the lure of smaller classes and a more personalised eductaion is very compelling.

[rabbitstew]

You have very hard decisions to make and I don't envy you. I would hate my ds to come home every day and tell me he was rubbish and I would be desperate to get him out of that environment. I do agree with other posters, though, that maybe you are pinning a bit too much hope on keeping your ds down a year, in a totally new school, as being the solution to all his problems. I would look into alternative state schools too, first - look for a school with a happy atmosphere where the children's level of attainment on leaving school is higher than would normally be predicted given their level at entry (ie their added value score), rather than what their SATs results are and whether they have an outstanding OFSTED report. Good SATs results and outstanding OFSTED reports guarantee a very middle class intake of already-performing-above-average children, they provide very few guarantees of anything else - certainly not a huge tolerance of the tiny proportion of children in the school with any form of academic difficulty (whether temporary or permanent). Just because you made a mistake in your choice of state school the first time around, it doesn't mean the only choice left open to you is to pay for your child to go to private school. Look at several options before you decide. There are state schools out there that will deal perfectly well with your ds in his correct year group and will make him feel good about himself and his achievements. (And I was just wondering - is the state sector always that rigid, and when did this start, as I went to a state primary and clearly remember a couple of boys staying down a year to help them catch up with their reading - the problem only arriving at the end of primary school, because I think they were required to go on to secondary school at "the right time"?).

[PollyParanoia]

The thing is, surely, that there has to be a cut-off date, however arbitrary. If not then you'd have wider than one year gulfs between the oldest and the youngest. You say what would it matter than your son would be two months older than the the oldest kids in his year, but he'd actually be 14 months older than the summer borns which seems very unfair on those little ones. I know they're not your children so it's not your problem but how would you feel if your ds currently had kids who were 14 or 15 months older than him. I know everyone on these boards talks big about flexible start dates but as I far as I can see this would only make the age gulfs bigger.
I speak as a child born in the last week of august. In no way did I shine in primary school but by a couple of years into secondary I was one of the brightest and by the end of sixth form I was into Oxford and by the end of Oxford I had a first. My gsce results (let alone any tests at 11) would never have predicted this, but I peaked at the right time. Your son may well be the same. I know it's hard on his self esteem but it can be elevating to have to work hard to catch up with your peers. And they are his peers in the way that those in the year below aren't.

[stoppingat3]

Brideshead, I can't add a huge amount to what's above but thought I would give you my story.
We moved DS1 to private in year 3 (for prep) we took the decision that all three DC's would go then. At the time we thought "its not worth it financially for cutting and sticking"
However DS2 had a speech problem that his lovely village state school were not addressing. He therefore moved at the start of year 1.
He has never looked back, they have been brilliant in so many ways that a state school just couldn't. Its wrong that the state system is not geared up to the same extent but it is true that you get what you pay for unfortunately.
We now realise that we were so so wrong about pre prep. So much so that DD is now going to go straight into reception.
I will say however that the world of private is so attractive that it does become hard to consider taking them out.
I wish you all the best.

[BridesheadRegardless]

They are hard decisions with no gurantees. I am in turmoil at the moment not knwoing what will be best for him.

This turmoil has been increased as one of the two private secondaries he could go to has said that at 11yrs it is academically selective so no gurantee he would get in there if held back after a year.

It's impossible to know and predict about friendships isn't it? he has friends at the moment but a small group as he is so much more immature than many of the boys in his class.

We have mentioned a possible move to him and he is quite enthusiastic saying 'i think I'll have a look'. I asked if he'd be sad and he said 'a bit nervous and a bit excited.'He also asked what the lunches would be like.

[Laine4kids]

another point for you to consider,friends.I'd urge you not to underestimate the impact unhappiness can have on a childs education.
My dd2 was perfectly happy at her state primary,we moved and the local good primary did not have a space for her.We put her in a local small private school with 13 in her class and thought she would flourish.she struggled to fit in and after 5 months has made no progress,in fact now has low confidence and thinks she's an "idiot".
she was average or above before and I think it's mostly due to lack of friends.2 girls left at christmas leaving only 3 to make friends from which is hard even for my sociable little girl(yr4).
we are now considering appealing for a place at the local primary.
these are hard decisions with no garuntees.
My dd2's happiness is just as important as her education.
BTW,I agree about flexible start dates ,that would be ideal.
good luck.

[BridesheadRegardless]

Butterfly I think it is about maturity with my son also.

Another possible option is to put him into priavte in a Yr 1 class so he can have an extra year in infants in small classes to boost his basic skills and then in the juniors look to move move him if/when appropriate back to his year group.

The private school have suggested this as an option. I am unsure how much 'missing' a year in juniors would have a nagetive impact versus the benefit of gaining the extra year in infants?

I imagine maths would be potentially the most effectded area as it is the most progressive, whereas once you can read you can read IYSWIM?

[sprat1]

I have come across a few people who moved their DC from state to private. One lot completyely delighted. DS went from bottom in state year 2 to middle in private year3 . The fact he was no longer bottom did wonders for him. He did not drop back a year. The other 3 all moved to the same school.All found their children still struggled in the same way as at their previous schools. One lot feel they have to tutor all the time to keep pace and all say its not what it was cracked up to be. As I said thats one school.
I am a September birthday but started school outside the UK. On returning to the UK (private school)I ended up being the youngest in my year always rather than the oldest. A few times (when we moved house hence changed schools) it was suggested I join the correct year. I was very resisteant as I loved being the youngest.
My DS1 has special needs and as he is summer born we were offered back yearing him. I am glad we didnt as although he is fairly bright he is slow. If he had been in the year below he would still be slow and still not in the top groups. He would have been a year behind and still not one of the brightest. At least now we can say. You are one of the youngest

[Butterfly99]

I would be really wary of doing what you are suggesting. My summer born ds had an IEP and educational psychologist referral from reception. In yr 3 he suddenly made huge progress and has continued to do so, is now in yr 6 in top set for english and predicted to get a level 5 in his sats. With my ds I think it was about maturity.
Also I have friends with children at the local private school. They is a lot more pressure to achieve well academically and as has been pointed out, they may well be working at a higher level. Also he may start at the same level but may not be able to keep up with them. We also have kids at our school who have transferred from the pre prep because of lack of support with special needs.

[Merrylegs]

I would just be wary of letting your frustrations with his current school lead you into making a decision which could have a greater impact on his schooling later on when, as others have pointed out, it is very likely he will catch up.

It may be the school that is wrong for him. One with a more nurturing atmosphere, smaller classes and more time for individual attention may be what you are really looking for.

[MollieO]

The other thing to consider is the complete lack of LEA support to pupils of private schools. Our LEA has made it very clear that they will have no involvement with ds in terms of Ed Psych or other support because he is at private school. Fortunately ds's GP is absolutely fab and will ensure that ds gets the same support only via the NHS rather than the LEA.

[MollieO]

Ds is in year 1 at a non-selective pre-prep school and has recently been diagnosed with learning difficulties. He is one of the youngest in the year but his LDs are more likely the result of being a prem.

Compared to his friends in state school he is working at a higher level and the school has higher expectations. There is more support (his LDs probably wouldn't have been diagnosed until yr 3 if he was at state school) but it comes at a cost additional to the termly fees.

Has the school confirmed his ability range is within the year 1 cohort? Ime there would be nothing worse than moving him back a year only to find he is still struggling.

No idea about yr 2 but I can say that in yr 1 there is a huge ability range which I assume will continue when they get into yr 2. If he will get the extra support as well as the smaller class size then I would think about keeping him in his peer group.

[kitkat1967]

Hi,

My DD has a mid-August birthday and I did not want here to start school at 4 years and 1 week old however the only alternative I was offered was to keep her at home for a year then straight into yr 1 (she was also quite prem).
She really struggled for several yrs and it was not until year 3 that she caught up. But when she did catch up it was not just a bit it was from the bottom group to the top of the top group (in all subjects) - so what I'm saying is remember it takes time to catch up if you have a summer birthday. I think most teachers would say it takes at least until the end of yr 2.
I do know however how hearbreaking it is when your child knows they are not getting the 'proper' work. We knew DD was bright but went through long periods of wondering if she would ever demonstrate that at school. We also put in loads of extra time reading and writing with her - through all the holidays etc. Worth it in the end but I strongly belive that she had 3 years of upset that would have been completely removed if this country had a more flexible approach to school start days.
On the plus side now she is doing so well we always add 'and you're the youngest!!'.

[PollyTechnique]

You sound as though you've thought it through and know what's best for your son.

Two points to add to what has already been said.

Because private schools often work at a more advanced level than state in order to "prep" children for the 11+/Common Entrance/private secondary school exams, find out exactly what level many of the children in yr 1 are working it.

My dd was working a year ahead all the time, which could defeat the object of what you're trying to achieve.

Also, it's worth thoroughly investigating what the private school has to offer re additional support and not just taking it at face value.

Find out the nuts and bolts of what is actually offered. Talk to other parents to get the inside track. Sometimes reality doesn't match the advertising spiel, unfortunately.

On a positive note, my dd's class of 12 did wonders for her self-esteem in terms of her finding ways to shine.

Best of luck.

[BridesheadRegardless]

Information about sports and other parents is useful Snorkie, and something to obviously consider, but on balance not enough to outweigh the potential benefits as I see them at present.

[BridesheadRegardless]

I know the system may cause us difficulties with this, and I wnat to be aware of all those potentials.

I haven't made my mind up actaully, but i just disgaree with many comments on the thread about the damage of being older, as I think it is more damaging to be always struggling.

Comments about LA agencies, also irratate, as he is just young and doesn't have learning diffiucltues, unless placed in situation where he imaturaty places him at a disadvantage, then 'voila' he has learning diffiuclties.

I know my son, I know his levels, I know he would do well in a class paced at a Year 1 level and I know he will struggle in a class constantly paced above this level.

I also know and want to consider how opting out of the rigid system may cuase us difiuclties.

[Lymond]

This is such a common thing in many independent schools Brideshead - you are really not alone in wanting to rebel against the spurious cut off date, and it is one of the strengths of what an independent education can offer. There is no stigma attached to this decision.

It sounds to me like you're totally doing the right thing.. with the caveat of first getting the schools sdvice on senior admissions in your area.

[snorkie]

x-posts here too. I hope so too Brideshead, it may be the case, but other people's children and their parents are unpredictable about how they will react & what they will say when they realise he is oldest and you need to have a back up plan of how to handle it if it comes out in a less than ideal way sooner than you would have preferred.