Active discussions

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

look and say recommendations

101 replies

paperlantern · 05/12/2013 19:05

have been told that ds needs "look and see" reading scheme as opposed to phonics. currently not reading at all

i want to do some work on this at home. I would love any recommendations on a scheme of books we could get or explain how to get started on look and say. This is all a bit new for me
Thanks

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
Original poster
paperlantern · 05/12/2013 19:06

"look and say" not "look and see"!!!!
Blush

OP posts:
Tractorandtree · 05/12/2013 19:09

Try the Peter and Jane books, that's how I learnt to read and ds1 enjoys them.

This box set is a good starting point:

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1409302830/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1386270465&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165

columngollum · 05/12/2013 19:21

Dr Seuss books
Elsie Marinarik's Little Bear books
Topsy & Tim
Ladybird Peter & Jane
The ORT (except floppy phonics)

Original poster
paperlantern · 05/12/2013 19:38

oh! Shock

I know the Peter and Jane books!

I'm guessing the old puddle lane books that I have upstairs are also look and see right?

OP posts:
souperb · 05/12/2013 19:52

Ladybird have two reading systems - phonic and "look and read". Look and read includes the Peter and Jane key words books but also other stories, fairytales etc. and some of the books come with CDs/tapes that you can "read along" with.

Jelly and Bean are a school scheme that uses look and say, as well as the original ORT still used by plenty of schools.

The thing with look and say is that you can use most simple books, so don't need to specifically go out and find certain types. If you are learning by a phonics method, then it's more important to have the right sorts of books. So, read anything that your DS likes.

But mostly I would ask the school what they are proposing to do and ask what you can do at home to support it. They may be sending home flashcards or tins of words for him to learn?

Original poster
paperlantern · 05/12/2013 19:58

school are a major part of the problem (unrecognised senHmm ) and advice has come from ed psych! Hoping to change school at some point in the new year, in the meantime looking at simple things I can do to help.

flash cards like when I was at school right?

OP posts:
mrz · 05/12/2013 20:02

Jelly & Bean are actually phonics reading scheme
and the point with Look & Say is you can't just use any books (perhaps you are thinking of Whole Language/Real books) ... Look & Say books were specially written to support the method with restricted repetitive text so that readers are systematically introduced to new words to build up a bank of words the child recognises by sight. Progressive texts are used with strictly controlled vocabularies containing just those words which have been learned. Hense the joy of Look Look Look Look Look Look Look Look

mrz · 05/12/2013 20:03

Why is the Ed Psych recommending Look & Say ... have they given a reason?

amistillsexy · 05/12/2013 20:04

Flash cards are the way to go.

Also, print labels out and stick them onto everything around the house- chair, table, cupboard, sink, etc. Point them out constantly, so your Ds is used to seeing the words, and recognising them. He'll soon start 'reading' the words himself, followed by being able to recognise them out of context.

Original poster
paperlantern · 05/12/2013 20:11

ed psych recommended look and say because despite a good cognitive score, ds has extremely poor phonics recognition and seriously disordered language Sad

OP posts:
columngollum · 05/12/2013 20:13

Look Look Look Look Look Look Look Look

is a particularly stupid text.

The cat sat on the mat

would make far more sense as would

the hog nods to the dog

Anyone would be better off making their own first reading book if all they could get was look look look look

mrz · 05/12/2013 20:13

sorry but a child who struggles to recognise small units is expected to recognise large units ... crazy!

columngollum · 05/12/2013 20:15

Most my first books are pictures of things with their names printed. Let's face it, the page with the dog on it doesn't say dog dog dog dog

Children aren't as stupid as the people who write basal readers are!

mrz · 05/12/2013 20:21

you obviously have a wide experience of Look & Say books columngollum Hmm

Original poster
paperlantern · 05/12/2013 20:22

thanks for that. Whilst the Peter and Jane may not be for everyone they did help dd learn.

phonics is about breaking down into composite sounds which is the bit ds can't do. from memory the Peter and Jane books are about matching a word to a shape which is actually how ds learned to talk. hence I can see it would be better.
Just didn't realise that was see and say

OP posts:
Original poster
paperlantern · 05/12/2013 20:23

it wasn't just me who found gollums comments emmensely annoying then!

OP posts:
meditrina · 05/12/2013 20:27

Perhaps the ed psych who,is recommending "look and say" might also have recommendations for a scheme?

But I note you say " has extremely poor phonics recognition". Has he been properly taught so far (and I mean properly, not mixed methods)?

Because a standard phonic reading recover programme might be worth consideration too. Is this something you could discuss with EdPsych?

Original poster
paperlantern · 05/12/2013 20:34

I doubt he's been taught anything at the school properly tbh! Hmm

the poor phonics recognition comes from speech and language testing. he has sen. still trying to work out what exactly that means for him

OP posts:
souperb · 05/12/2013 20:54

mrz Jelly and Bean uses look and say because it uses high frequency words that need to be known (as at that stage they wouldn't be able be to sounded out yet). I would say it is a mix of l&s and phonic.

paperlantern The ladybird website has their list of 100 key words, if that is useful. You could make your own flashcards etc. Any book that you read with your child will contain high frequency words (because they are high frequency!). You can get the repetition effect from reading a favourite book together again and again instead of reading a dull book with three repeated words on each page. Good luck with the school change - I hope it all works out for your DS.

mrz · 05/12/2013 21:04

Souperb Jelly & Bean are a phonic reading scheme (but not a synthetic phonics reading scheme as defined by the DfE) ... High Frequency Words are NOT sight words they are just words that are used "frequently" and most are fully decodable right from the start. A few have spellings for sounds that children may not have been taught at that stage but this doesn't mean the child has to be taught the word by shape or sight.

from the J&B website

"After leaving teaching in 1996, Marlene began writing and illustrating phonic reading material for children aged 4-7 years old. The Jelly and Bean stories were written to complement the phonic progression of the National Literacy Strategy published in March 1998."

Feenie · 05/12/2013 23:52

Can only reiterate what mrz has said - Jelly and Bean is most definitely a phonic scheme

Original poster
paperlantern · 06/12/2013 08:29

I would say who'd have thought phonics could be so controversial, but I remember DP moaning about it when it came outGrin

right santa is helping out and getting ds the Peter and Jane books recommended in the first post. then we'll work through the lovely puddle lane books and cobble together the dr suess hiding about the house.

not a jelly in sight!

OP posts:
Original poster
paperlantern · 06/12/2013 08:31

darling parents not partnerConfused Blush Blush

OP posts:
mrz · 06/12/2013 17:11

Dare I say Dr Seuess aren't Look & Say either

mrz · 06/12/2013 17:13

"I would say who'd have thought phonics could be so controversial, but I remember DP moaning about it when it came out"

Your DP were around in the 15th Century?