Really annoyed - local primary does not 'do' visits

[drewsmum]

My DS is starting in reception next year and I have started to look around the schools I would like to apply to. All well and good, have 5 schools to see in the next 2weeks.

However, the primary just down the road from us, in catchment area, has responded to email and telephone requests for a visit to look around with "we are so popular that we don't have to promote ourselves so no, you can't visit". The other reason given was they can't do visits because of staffing levels.

I am thoroughly ticked off by this- if all the other schools can accommodate visits why can't this one? And how precisely am I going to compare this school with all the others to be able to rank it? I suppose what they're saying is if you don't rank it 1st then forget it so why would you even want to look around.

WWYD? Ask to speak to head teacher to have questions answered? Hang out by school gates and ask parents what they think of the school? Would LEA or governors be of any help?

Advice appreciated!

I asked to see a particular school outside their usual schedule because their only scheduled time was my due date - they didn't relent! Really annoyed me. Apparently it is a great school, but I didn't put it in my rankings as I wanted to judge for myself and was in hospital at the time...

That is bizarre. Do they have an Open Day at all-most school do around this time of year. You can't possibly get a feel for the school if you can't look around it. I would probably write to the Governors.

No, They don't have any Open Days either, they said in their email reply that they get so many applications that they don't feel it's necessary. I'm glad you feel this is bizarre as I wasn't sure if I was being unreasonable. I just can't quite imagine applying to a school that I have never seen (at least the inside - we walk by every day in the local park!) Will try the governors & see if I get anywhere. Has really deflated me as it is so close, just a 5 minute walk away, I was hoping that it would be my 1st choice if it compared well with the other schools I'm considering....

Their attitude to visits kind of starts you off on the wrong footing though doesn't it? What other bizarre things do they do/not do? Not exactly welcoming.

You could try and sneak into their Nativity play.

I wouldn't have sent my two to a school I had never set foot in. I was about to send DS1 to a first school that I really liked then looked around another. I knew as soon as I walked into the second one that I had to send him there if I could. It's a bit like the buying a house feeling.

Definitely try and contact the governors.

It's all very well saying to you that they don't feel it is necessary. Open days are for the benefit of parents to get a feel of the school and decide whether or not it is the right place for their child. Personally I'm with Sparkling on this and would be questioning why the difficult attitude and staying well away. I wonder if the governors have any idea? Worth a try anyway, if only for the sake of future parents who might like to see around.

I think this is very off - I'd have thought they would have some type of statutory duty to allow parents to come and have a look, otherwise how else can you make a choice? Have a look at your local authority's web site and see if there's anything on there - perhaps email the head of admissions, and your local councillor.

perhaps it is a good sign that they are concentrating their efforts on the children they already have.

It's not about the school promoting itself, it's about enabling parents to make the right choice isn't it? All very peculiar.

I purposely didn't buy a house in the catchment of a (then) Outstanding primary as they wouldn't let me look around. If the email just came from the office, I might see if I could get the heads email and forward it to her asking if this was correct.
But I would cross it off my list.
BTW if it is your closest school, you could still get a place there even if it was your last choice. I would think having an in take of parents who didn't want/trust the school would not be pleasant for the school.

Agree mummytime. It would drop the school down my list!

Vote with your feet - don't apply. The more people that take this attitude the more the school will realise visits are a valuable part of the starting school process.

If you feel this school is your best option then bite the bullet and apply anyway. I wouldn't personally bother with making a fuss, sneaking in or talking to the govenors. The fact is that if a school is over subscribed they can very easily say 'don't like it? Naff off then.' I don't think itll get you anywhere.

Assuming at least one of the other schools is OK for you, in terms of distance etc, I think you are well out of it.

I would be very reluctant to send my kids to a school with this policy. It smacks of "this is the way we do things and if you don't like it, lump it". One size fits all, no need for parents to have any opinion about whether their child will be happy with us, if you don't think the sun shines out of our .... you aren't welcome.

If you still want to give it a try, because it's the nearest school, I'd agree with trying to contact Head or Governors direct and challenge the policy. I'd also be asking lots and lots of questions of any existing parents you can locate. In the park for example. How does the school deal with problems? Are they good at catering for the needs of individual children? Are they willing to engage in constructive dialogue with parents when issues arise at school? Because their attitude to prospective parents is, frankly, shocking.

It may not be necessary for them but it certainly is for you! Having looked round them both I decided not to appy to one of the schools near us which is considered "the best" as I really didn't like the atmosphere. That isn't something I could have picked up from a website or prospectus.

Personally I really would steer clear of a school whose Head thought like that. It really doesn't bode well for future parent/school communications and relationships, does it?

Did they really say "we are so popular that we don't have to promote ourselves so no, you can't visit"? If so, then I would avoid.

But maybe they mean that due to staffing problems or because areas of the school are unavailable, they can't take on visits at the moment.

I do think it's odd that they don't encourage visits. Most heads love to show off their schools.

I wouldn't be happy with that at all - you need to know that the school seems right for your child - how are you meant to be able to tell that if you can't visit?

When we moved up here I came on fact finding missions as we had flexibility on where exactly we were moving to and I needed to find a school with two spaces in it. I visited 13 schools I think over 4 days in total - if a school had said I couldn't visit it would have been removed from my list of potential ones. The school where DC go was happy for me to phone up one morning and visit again with about an hour's notice (I would have understood if they couldn't).

Depending where you are (and I'm sure you know this, based on where you are) you may not get in to farther away schools. In our LA, each school assesses applications based on distance and this is independent of the ranking parents put down. Then we are offered our top-ranked choice among the schools for which we meet the distance criteria. If we are very close to 3 schools, great - we get our top choice of those 3. If not, and if we choose all farther schools and don't meet the distance criteria: not so great; we get a school that is not oversubscribed (and is probably farther away too).

So this school is being very unreasonable: they could well be putting off very nearby parents who do not meet the distance criteria for other schools, and who therefore don't have much effective choice! The LA/board of governors need to be made aware of it.

They are taking themselves way
too seriously if they can't make the time for prospective parents.

I walked by the school this afternoon walking the dog; thought maybe peering through the gates into the classrooms would be frowned upon! It would be such a shame to have to cross it off the list as it is so close and seems really nice, has good outdoor facilities at least and was only built about 4 years ago. However, as most of you have said, their attitude so far does not bode well for future positive relationships with the school.

The original email I got as a reply so a query about open days came from the Business Manager, and read 'Due to the high number of requests for our reception classes, it is not normal practice for us to have Open Days at this early stage. As part of our admission process, successful applicants will be invited to school for an induction.'

I then rang the school today to see if I could arrange a visit, as I have done with a few other schools, and was told by the receptionist that they do not do visits both because of staffing issues and because of the high number of applications 'they do not have to promote themselves'.

I have spoken to a couple of other schools who do not have open days for this reason but were happy to arrange a visit.

Still not sure what to do. DH tends to be quite level-headed about these things where I get worked up so need his input as well.

Why oh why does this whole process have to be so difficult? I'm sure if I asked to visit Eton I could! (Though they may ask to see a bank statement first...!!)

That's very odd. It reminds me of our nearest school - we made an appointment to look around and when we got there we were left waiting for around half an hour with no apology, then when someone turned up to show us around she admitted that we had been kept waiting because that day the majority of the staff were out on a training exercise and most of the teachers in that day were supply teachers - why they gave us that date I'll never know. I got the feeling that they honestly feel that they are such an amazing school that they don't need to make an effort to be welcoming to prospective parents. I didn't like the feel of the place and we sent dd elsewhere, the school where the headmaster was really friendly and it just felt more comfortable if that makes sense. On paper the first school is amazing, and the building is brand new - but it just didn't feel right for us. You absolutely need to see inside a school and talk to the staff to decide whether or not to send your child there.

Also, isn't it nice for the child to have a look around to prepare them? Dd was so excited that they have chickens at her school, it helped us to 'big it up' before she started.

I would definitely contact the LA.

Could you just go and knock on the door ?
They'd have to let you into the reception area at least, then you could just talk to the receptionist in a slightly potty way, kinda of like your old chums and your having a (one-sided natter) about your childs disability (yes I know your child doesn't have one-but receptionist doesn't) and how its so tricky choosing schools regarding access so you'd just need to check ground floor classrooms......

I think this is sadly common. I had to make a real fuss to get to look round two very oversubscribed schools near me. I ended up choosing the other school nearby, with a worse Ofsted report in some ways, but which was actively interested in talking to me and working out if my child would be happy there with the specific approach and style of the school

Its not common around here. Most schools let people look around at anytime, even if they are full or their child is only 2 or something.

I never looked around the primary school that my DD attends, and I don't think any other parents did either AFAIK. We all just sent our children to the nearest school, the one their friends were going to.

Once we had applied for the school and been accepted, there was an open morning to meet the headteacher, look round the classrooms, get the children used to the setting etc. It happened on the same day that the year 6 children were looking round the secondary school.

Surely schools haven't got the time to be letting every slightly interested parent look round the school on a one to one basis.

Unfortunately, Haberdashery is right.

I am an advisory teacher for children in care, and part of my role is to identify new schools for children who have moved placement. I am hearing this more frequently; even in a professional capacity I have been refused visits.

Unfortunately, most of the children are so vulnerable that it is unthinkable that we should apply for a school we have never even seen.

I think there needs to be legislation. The fact that the school thinks visits are to 'promote itself' is a sad indictment of the situation WRT school admissions.

We have open days but not individual visits. It is very disruptive to the staff and the current pupils, and each visit would take up a huge amount of the HT's time.