Really annoyed - local primary does not 'do' visits

[drewsmum]

My DS is starting in reception next year and I have started to look around the schools I would like to apply to. All well and good, have 5 schools to see in the next 2weeks.

However, the primary just down the road from us, in catchment area, has responded to email and telephone requests for a visit to look around with "we are so popular that we don't have to promote ourselves so no, you can't visit". The other reason given was they can't do visits because of staffing levels.

I am thoroughly ticked off by this- if all the other schools can accommodate visits why can't this one? And how precisely am I going to compare this school with all the others to be able to rank it? I suppose what they're saying is if you don't rank it 1st then forget it so why would you even want to look around.

WWYD? Ask to speak to head teacher to have questions answered? Hang out by school gates and ask parents what they think of the school? Would LEA or governors be of any help?

Advice appreciated!

none of the parents in my dds reception class, or i did visits, it is unneccessary unless a sen is involved.

Open days would be great; I would also prefer this as you're right, I don't want to take up HT time however this school doesn't do open days either.

For those that did not visit and children went to local school, did you have other choices? In our area we have to rank 3 options in order of preference.

I guess I am uncomfortable both because it is an unknown quantity; the school's website has not even been up and running for the past month at least, and because of their attitude which I fear would then carry over from prospective parents to actual parents of children in the school.

i also had 3 options, the first option i had actually been in briefly when applying for nursery for dd, and i didnt like it, due to the attitude of the staff, although it is the best in terms of playground equipment and looks very appealing, so put that as 3rd choice.

the other 2 options, i asked the ta's at the nursery, and the childrens centre workers who had kids there, and other parents, and all of them were happy with the school which was closest to me, and none of them had any problems, one ta said she had taken her dds out of school s to school d, so i put school d as 1st choice and school s as 2nd.

also other children from dds nursery also attended schools d and , and the nursery had a working relationship with them in which once they were accepted the nirsery teachers went with them on various visits etc to the new schools.

there is also a church school, but i didnt list that as a preference, also there is another school slightly further away, like maybe 20-25 mins walk, compared to the 2nd and 3rd choice options which are 10 - 15 mins, but i didnt even consider it tbh.

schools d and s

nailak, can I ask; how would you have chosen if none of the three schools had allowed you to visit? Would you have put option 1 first? What would you have done if you found you didn't like it once you had a place?

As a parent and a teacher, I think visits are really important- not just for children with SEN. I live opposite a school which everyone I have spoken to is happy with and is oversubscribed. I hate it. There is no way DD is going there.

Of course, in an ideal world, all schools would be as good as one another and you would just go to your local school.

To be honest, I wouldn't send my child to a school I hadn't been able to see. The two oversubscribed schools (with wonderful Ofsted reports) I saw were not a good fit for my slightly bonkers but essentially nice and gentle child. The one with a worse Ofsted report turned out to be a perfect fit and she's doing really well there so far. I suspect a school which doesn't want to work with parents before entry might not be very accommodating after entry. Having said that, current parents may be able to give you some opinions and pointers, if you know any?

I wouldn't send my child to a school that was that unwelcoming either. My DD's school has been oversubscribed by half again for the last 3 years, but they've still had 4 open days recently for new applicants!

Even if it looks good from the outside, would you want to deal with staff with that attitude if your DC had problems in future?

We didn't look round primary schools before we made our choices for dd2, but then we live in a village and we wanted her to go to the village school.

We did know about the school before hand but it has worked out much better than expected. Dd2 absolutely adores school and we couldn't be happier.
Luckily she has had two teachers that totally get her and her weird ways and actively encourage her.

As a teacher I wouldn't send my DC to a school where I had not been able to visit on a normal working day. I don't care how popular they say they are, it isn't the attitude I expect when they are going to be a partnership with me.

Over subscribed and a good or outstanding Ofsted means nothing-you need to see it and meet the Head and form your own opinion as to whether it suits your DC.

when have you got to apply by? look on the school website and see if there is a Christmas Fair coming up that you can go to.

I think you can judge a great deal by this sort of occasion and seeing how the teachers/parents/children are all interacting

A Christmas Fair won't tell you a lot-e.g. the teachers and DCs may get on brilliantly, but they may all dislike the Head, which they won't tell or show.

I wouldn't take no for an answer. I would call in and get to speak to the Head and say 'I'm sorry but I don't go by Ofsted and I don't find other parent' opinion all that reliable I need to see the school myself on a normal working day'. Have your diary in your hand and say 'can we fix a date'. I'm afraid that if he/she refuses after that I would be honest and say -'I will have to rule you out as a choice'.

I did also wonder about the Christmas Fayre as a visiting opportunity (perhaps you could collar a parent) - but it won't show you the classroom or the children in a 'normal' environment which is what you really need. I would be very wary that they have such an inflexible attitude, it really does not bode well for the future. My child goes to the biggest school in our county and as well as fixed date Open Days the HT was happy to see people individually if they wanted (intake of 90).

I didn't look round dd's school before we applied it just didn't occur to me, it is the village school, we live in the village, I couldn't get her to any other school even if I wanted to send her somewhere else however I already knew allot about the school and knew lots of parents who had children there already. It is an outstanding in all areas ofsted, very good results and extremely oversubscribed as it is one of the best schools in the county, they certainly don't need to promote themselves however any parent who wants to come and see the school is welcome, the head shows people around or if she is not about the deputy head will do it if it is on one of her non teaching days. We have one open afternoon but it is more about current parents coming in and seeing what the children have been up to and as it is in the summer term a chance to meet and chat to the class teacher your child will have the next year. Saying that anybody is welcome at the open afternoon, lots of people from the village come to see what the children have been up to and also parents who will be applying for the next years reception class do come.
I find it very odd that this school is so very resistant to you coming and seeing the school, it defiantly gives off the wrong signals about how the school works and it's relationship with parents, I would worry about sending my child there and would hope I could get a place at a different school for my child, I think I would be very concerned if it was the school my child would almost defiantly be going to (if it was my closest school and was the only one I would likely meet the criteria for).
I would look to see if there was another school that I stood a chance of getting a place at that would let me visit and go for that one knocking this one right off the list, if it is the only school you stand a chance at I would make one more effort to book a visit, maybe asking to speak to the head directly, could be office staff who are driving this rather then the head teacher, I would explain how this is your most likely school and you really need to have a chance to have a look around. I can't think of anything else you really could do!

I would be very worried about any school with this policy.

Ring them again, and ask for a date when you can visit the school, as you are sure that they will understand that you cannot send your child to a school that you have never seen.

If they refuse, you could ask (in order)

• To have a telephone conversation with the head to answer specific questions that you have (obviously you would prefer to meet her in the context opf a school visit, but if that is not possible, please could 15 minutes be put in her diary for hyou to have a telephone conversation). If they say 'yes', then have a REALLY detailed list of questions that it would be much easier to answer through visiting the site (e.g. security arrangements at the beginning and end of the day, size of the Reception outside area, precise location of the toilets for the reception classroom, arrangements at lunchtime for children who have packed lunches, what kind of toys are available for children to play with at lunchtime, how do the younger and older children interact at playtime, the layout of each classroom as the children pass through the school etc ... with any luck she'll give up and just say 'come and see'!)

• If that is refused, whether there are any parents of children currently in the Reception class who would be happy to answer questions about it.

• If that is refused, ask to be put in contact with the head of the PTA or equivalent.

• If that is refused, ask 'what have you got to hide?'

• Then write to the local newspapers, asking 'What has school x got to hide? No parents are allowed to visit, they have no open days, what is it they don't want us to know'. Send a copy of the letter to the school....

Honestly, it makes me cross.....

Thanks for that teacher, I had actually thought about going to local paper as obv a last resort. I am going to try to speak to the head directly or failing that write a very polite letter (I often find in my line of work that a letter gets a better response than a phone call) asking lots of questions and requesting a visit. Then failing that going to governors/PTA/LEA/media - at that point would be less about my application as I don't think I could send my child there with that much stonewalling, more to change the situation in future.

Went to see another school today, had an open day, HT was lovely and everyone very welcoming, also oversubscribed school with good Ofsted but would have to drive there....striking contrast in attitude.

Sounds very complacent Are you sure there was n't an open event earlier this term or end of last ? Gatecrash their Christmas fair and natiivities and get a feel for the place and staff then ! Didn't think ranking was necessarily taken into account by the school though, unless they do their own admissions.

I would do as teacherwith2kids says. I would go to the governors if I didn't get anywhere. Don't let her get away with it.
It is so arrogant 'we know what is best for your DC, you don't need to question us or see it in action'

Are they very over subscribed and looking to reduce applicants?

Yes they are oversubscribed and I suppose this is one way of reducing applications...however all of the other schools I am seeing are oversubscribed as well and seem to recognise the usefulness of parents making an informed decision as to which schools they would like to rank and in which order.

This primary has a Business Manager, who replied to my original email, is it usual for primary schools to have Business Managers? If not, any idea why they would need one?

They sound a bit up their own backsides TBH.

Most parents I know visited 2/3 schools before deciding where to send their reception year child. DS's school has Open Days and allows parents to go in the day at other times if they can't make the group tours.

I just wouldn't send my child to a school if I hadn't been able to have look round first.

We have a Business Manager as do a number of primaries in my area but it is quite a new concept. It frees the head up to concentrate on educational issues rather than juggling/negotiating contracts with suppliers and contractors for services and materials.

One of the schools round here is like that - and did not go onto our list for that very reason. No way was ds1 going to a school that I had not seen - no matter how good they said they were.

Agree with others who have said it does not bode well for the head's attitude towards parents.

Do you know anybody with kids there that would let you go with them at pick up time and that could take you in, even on the pretext that their dc had left something behind, just to get a look inside? Shouldn't be necessary I know but might be worth a shot.