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What will it take for the Government to enact welfare reform?

1000 replies

Schlossadler · 17/09/2026 16:00

What has to break, before the Government is finally willing to enact welfare reform?

OP posts:
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14
RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 12:02

Schlossadler · 18/09/2026 11:57

You make many valid points, but there is a lot to cover in your post.

I agree with much of what you say, but I do not think our government has the ability or inclination to act. Their focus remains on fringe issues and ensuring that they retain and expand their voter base, in order to remain in ‘power’. Hence, in part, the subject of this thread.

Like you, I am deeply concerned about the state of the UK (not just the UK, in fairness).

The whole thing is a head fuck. That's part of the problem.

Yes there a lot of points but they are ALL directly inter connected.

Fertiliser. Diesel. Economic security implications.

The three things you need to know which result in geopolitical power shifts from the fallout.

Schlossadler · 18/09/2026 12:03

Badbadbunny · 18/09/2026 12:00

Whether it works or not, it will be popular among the Labour MPs and supporters who want the politics of spite, hate and envy. They'll be glad "the rich" are being punished, whether it ends up better for the country or not.

If you are right, they will have to accept the consequences from the markets - and there will be consequences.

OP posts:
Pineneedlesincarpet · 18/09/2026 12:05

Schlossadler · 18/09/2026 11:46

Exit taxes have proven, globally, not to work.

Should the duplicitous Healey try to bring one in during the budget, you would effectively kill a significant amount of potential investment, overnight. Sterling and/or gilts would also suffer an adverse reaction.

I am not convinced that Labour are even that stupid, but I have been wrong before….

Edited

Most of their taxes have followed the law of unintended (but warned of by everyone else) consequences so we shall see. Its the fear that they could actually be that stupid that might more higher rate taxpayers leaving anyway. The moron effect.

Schlossadler · 18/09/2026 12:06

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 12:02

The whole thing is a head fuck. That's part of the problem.

Yes there a lot of points but they are ALL directly inter connected.

Fertiliser. Diesel. Economic security implications.

The three things you need to know which result in geopolitical power shifts from the fallout.

I did say in my earlier post, that a large part is the inflationary effects from the conflict in the ME - this is correct.

Further exogenous factors include US tariffs and counter-tariffs, and the grey/hybrid warfare between the US and China (and her proxies) - remember, rearmament is inflationary.

Domestic issues include ageing demographics and AI, of course.

My focus is on the incompetence of the UK government (I.e something that can be addressed).

OP posts:
Schlossadler · 18/09/2026 12:07

Schlossadler · 18/09/2026 11:33

Ok, let’s talk finance and money.

You choose (I am not familiar with benefits tbh), but PE, equities, fixed income, trading, UHNW, macro, I can do.

And, when you get to brass tacks, it really is about the money.

@Morninginesa

Are you done with your incorrect assumptions?

OP posts:
Pineneedlesincarpet · 18/09/2026 12:10

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 11:51

No. Not just that. The news cycle for the last 24 hrs in the UK is frankly absolutely appalling in conveying what's actually happening and the implications of this.

Today is slowly catching up but it's way behind where it should be, and I'm looking for Burnham and wondering when we are going to get past tumbleweeds for these multiple incoming crisis.

Let me spell this out. Burnham's quote about social security before national security from last week I think it was is abject nonsense at this point. And I LIKE Burnham. There is no capacity for social security if you are not economically independent enough to avoid global shocks. You get forced into a position where you have to be active rather than completely passive.

I'm reading all the threads about benefits and pensions and houseprices etc on MN ATM and going "fuuuuuuccckkkk this country has no clue what's going on".

Let me explain: Diesel is driving everything now. There is a global diesel shortage. It makes everyone in the world vulnerable. Everyone. More so than oil. More so than a lack of fertiliser.

I'll start with fertiliser though. The Iran conflict meant a huge amount of fertiliser wasn't exported from the gulf earlier this year. Prices skyrocketed. For the most part Western countries bought enough for their own production but many less well off countries didn't. So when crops which over the next six months to twelve months will be harvested, yields will be down massively. Western country are not self sufficient. But they can outbid other countries. There WILL be famine in parts of the world next year which are poor. This means significant civil unrest and that's going to affect production and imports/exports. And of course this means economic downturn across the world. As well as lots of migration. This is already baked in to what's going to happen. It's done. The moment has passed. Crops are already in the ground (or didn't get put in the ground). Food availability and price in the UK WILL be directly affected. It will be significant.

Let's talk about diesel next. Diesel is essential for trucks, trains and tractors. These Three Ts are our logistics backbone. Without them everything else falls apart. Also, what do you think cargo ships run on? There is a worldwide shortage. Oil itself is only part of the equation. It's about how much diesel you can also refine. Refinery capacity is a massive issue at this point - why?

The blockade led to contingency plans and other countries putting up production to adjust. Iraq was one of those who had done this most. They are trucking out oil through Syria under escort. That's Syria who have riots following the government there putting up fuel prices. (More instability). This is a very vulnerable and unstable route.

This week Saudi Arabia has had a massive problem with being bombed by the Yemenis. It's not just about Iran. The work around for Hormuz was the West-East pipeline to the Red Sea and the port of Yanbu (don't laugh it's a real place). At Yanbu was a refinery and storage tanks. The pipeline has been hit at three pumping stations. And the refinery and storage tanks have been hit. This wiped out the supply they had sold to Europe. Apparently a limited flow is going to be restored in a couple of days but in reality the area isn't secure so will continue to be a target. The Saudis cancelled expected deliveries to Europe for the end of September and this is thought is going to last until November at the earliest. This has left European oil companies panic buying to keep refineries going. From what I understand they've managed this at some expense (for now). The Saudis have instead refocused and their new contingency plan is to truck to Oman. This route is risky and expensive. And the oil is going to Asia not Europe. Yesterday the Saudis started to try and buy diesel from Europe. (Think about this HARD about what this implies). To get oil out to refine to diesel, Saudi Arabia is now having to import diesel which it was self sufficient in. This is effectively something of a death spiral in terms of costs and availability for Saudi oil production and exports. Unless it can fix it's security issue. And fast. The UK has refused military support but said it was considering sending advisors. Pakistan has now said it will offer support in line with it's defensive pact with Saudi.

Meanwhile, the US is largely self sufficient in diesel. It is the world's biggest exporter. I say largely self sufficient but this doesn't really fully explain the problem. The US is running all its refineries almost at full capacity. One went down this week. No production for two days now. The autumn is when the US normally schedules refinery maintenance. There isn't capacity for this (see above point about refinery going down). They import most of the rest of their diesel from a country named Canada...

That same Canada that just told the US to fuck off.

The US has said that it's considering banning diesel exports to protect prices. Except this only will bring short term relief to the US before making the situation worse because of the implications to the rest of the world and prices. It will be a disaster if they go down this route.

The UK. The UK had capacity to refine 50% of our own diesel. The rest we mainly get from the Netherlands but some from the Middle East. This makes us somewhat vulnerable. Especially with being outside the EU. Cos what might the EU decide to do? We have a grand total of four refineries - which I expect will soon have increased security if they don't already.

Libya. This week three of Libya's refineries had to go out of production due to unrest. Italy imports 25% of its diesel from Libya. Guess what Italian PM Meloni did yesterday? She had a trip to Norway. Can anyone think why?

Enter Russia v Ukraine into this equation.

Yesterday there was an air raid warning in two cities. Polish cities. There were sirens as Airspace was closed for military operations. President Tusk then did a lengthy speech detailing why. I won't go into details but it's basically about 'accidental' incidents on the border and multiple ongoing sabotage issues across Europe that haven't had a proper political response. He spoke of Russia having no where to go and putting pressure on western nations by taking advantage of issues with energy.

Russia has spent months poking Europe with sabotage attempts. Last week the Germans publicly accused them of an attack on Leipzig airport but it's not the only one - just the only one publicly attributed to Russia by a government. They have also targeted power stations. Yesterday the Dutch Railway system had a major issue due to sabotage in twenty places. These have all been infrastructure and logistics.

Within Ukraine they have been bombing petrol stations. And have started targeting border areas.

France has emergency meeting security briefing between all the party leaders. It has fishermen protesting outside oil refineries about the cost of diesel. Macron gave the reason for the meeting as necessary due to the 'significant shift in international politics'. This is highly unusual.

The energy price cap is due to be reviewed in Jan. Martin Lewis is reporting this will be a 24-25% increase due to the cost of gas. It's now almost inevitable.

So it doesn't matter what the fuck Burnham wants to do with social security. Social security isn't available if you've got no sodding diesel, you aren't self sufficient for food and you can't afford heating because it's gone up why beyond any inflationary increase. If you can't export shit to get money, due to a lack of diesel and a lack of customers cos they are busy dying or fighting a war you are in complete fucking denial about and are trying to stay out of despite the fact Russia has made it perfectly clear they see your country as a target. I mean Starmer was personally targeted with arson by two Romanians recruited on telegram by a Russian speaker. Look at this article for the shit show of trying to pretend it's not Russia.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgmdjpmmng7o

Yesterday marked a shift in language by Tusk (and other European leaders) as addressing this all as state sponsored terrorism - something which can and has triggered article 5 (9/11). Certainly it reaches the threshold for article 4 of NATO. (Basically this is what has now happened - we are into article 4 at least unofficially with Tusks speech)

Russia on its part has essentially considered itself at war with NATO since 2014.

Zelenskyy said yesterday words to the effect that he now thought China was supporting Russia due to components in North Korean missiles that had hit Ukraine.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte said earlier this week they are preparing for a scenario of war in Europe and Taiwan.

Secretary General Mark Rutte says NATO's force planning has to account for a “simultaneous multi-theatre conflict”, including the possibility that a Chinese move against Taiwan could coincide with Russian military action in Europe. Rutte's concern is that Beijing could turn to Moscow to keep the United States and its European allies occupied while China moves against Taiwan.

“You would have a serious problem in both theatres
.”

China has also been stockpiling gold for sometime. You do this if you are worried about economic stability. Trump has given lots of reasons for this. The Dutch, French and German government have over the last 18 months moved their gold to London.

The US military bases in the Middle East have got hammered to the point that it's questionable if some are still operational.

Noting Amazon also said their Cloud facility in UAE is beyond repair and are abandoning it and the data stored in it.

Pretty much all this has been building up for the past ten days.

Yesterday I was going slightly potty going why the fuck is this not being adequately spelt out in the UK. Today - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmn0jke547r5o
There are also other articles in the newspapers from heavy weight journalists starting to ask questions including wtf is Burnham playing at on these subjects.

Events, dear boy, events.

We are in uncharted waters and no fucker seems to have realised properly in the UK yet.

It has already happened and we've slept walked into this.

Wakey wakey.

Talk of social security is so June 2026. We should be talking quite seriously what plans there are in place in terms of rolling blackouts, fuel and food rationing. Because honestly, this is where we are and how perilously close to this being a necessity not even a possibility. This is the shift in risk profile that the government needs to be looking going into winter 2026.

The whole damn country and all the ideological crap from successive governments is becoming increasingly somewhat irrelevant at this because there will not be alternative options available. Anyone still blowing hot air about triple locks and who gets what benefits could be in for a rude bloody awakening. Brexit was enough of a farce because of the total lack of understanding of supply chains and logistics within parliament on all sides of the house and amongst the public. And COVID was it's own special shit show.

This is real. This is happening. Much of it is already set in motion and not resolvable even if the war in the Middle East was resolved tomorrow. It's about infrastructure damage already done and how this means serious political recalculations around the globe are now being done. This is affecting what hostile nations are looking at and willing to capitalise on due to Western strategic weaknesses. Even if we say "oh we don't want to get involved in a Russian conflict", Russia thinks we've been hitting it for over a decade so will seek to punish. We don't get that wet excuse to fall behind because this is all 'a bit scary'.

All this is verifiable, strong and reputable sources. I have spent the last week making sure of this. Don't believe me or think I'm scaremongering, get the fuck off MN and go check for yourselves.

I am NOT expecting nukes. There does not need to be nukes. Missiles are expensive. Drones arent. And they can be hidden and launched in close proximity to a target. Ukraine is hitting the far into Russia this way. It's a war on logistics and infrastructure and economic realities. It's already happening. And at least unofficially Article 4 just got triggered in terms of saying shit has got real and you need to take this threat seriously and stop pissing about.

Burnham needs to step the fuck up.

Thank you for your post ...although I am now even more scared than I was already. And appreciating we have completely the wrong leadership for the times.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 12:16

Pineneedlesincarpet · 18/09/2026 12:10

Thank you for your post ...although I am now even more scared than I was already. And appreciating we have completely the wrong leadership for the times.

I do not think any of the previous prime ministers we've had in the last decade or so would have been better. I do not think any of the potential replacements would be better.

The issue is the overall quality of political representation in the country declining due to PR and Social media.

It's all such complete bullshit and removed from understanding how things actually work and are interconnected.

EasternStandard · 18/09/2026 12:17

Schlossadler · 18/09/2026 11:46

Exit taxes have proven, globally, not to work.

Should the duplicitous Healey try to bring one in during the budget, you would effectively kill a significant amount of potential investment, overnight. Sterling and/or gilts would also suffer an adverse reaction.

I am not convinced that Labour are even that stupid, but I have been wrong before….

Edited

Hopefully not. Some kind of retrospective exit tax isn’t past them but it’s out off people coming here as payers.

Schlossadler · 18/09/2026 12:25

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 12:16

I do not think any of the previous prime ministers we've had in the last decade or so would have been better. I do not think any of the potential replacements would be better.

The issue is the overall quality of political representation in the country declining due to PR and Social media.

It's all such complete bullshit and removed from understanding how things actually work and are interconnected.

Healey resigned over the defence budget, before rejoining the cabinet as Chancellor - yep, only to endorse Burnham’s ‘national security/social security’ fuck up.

I have no faith in these people - the UK is exposed, and Moscow and Beijing know it.

OP posts:
Oopstheregoesanotherhouseplant · 18/09/2026 12:29

ExpectMore · 18/09/2026 08:24

We already have it. A single £100k earner already contributes more than 20+ median earners? It’s shockingly unfairly on the shoulders that already contribute the most. Don’t get lost down the rabbit hole of “billionaire wealth” vs high income. It’ll get you nowhere.

What makes you so entitled to others money anyway? It’s very grabby.

A wealth tax. Not an income tax. The two are different. Asset ownership has shifted to the wealthiest few and more assets you have the harder it is for anyone else to get assets. Even state owned assets have been sold off so the wealthy then also make passive income from assets that used be public owned.

theyneverchangedothey · 18/09/2026 12:32

BendyAndTired · 18/09/2026 10:41

Everyone seems to be conveniently forgetting how big a percentage of ‘welfare’ is Universal Credit top-ups paid to the working poor. Not just part-time workers, people who work full-time and still need UC to survive. A very quick simple fix for this is to set a true living wage as minimum wage, so that anyone working full-time doesn’t need UC, and they can earn extra and save etc by working overtime, instead of working overtime and gaining nothing because it just gets knocked off their UC.

Welfare isn’t all disability payments or to the completely non-working, but that’s an inconvenient truth that no one seems to acknowledge.

Approximately one third of Universal Credit claimants are in any kind of work. Interestingly, there are no figures on how many hours, just that they do some work.
The highest proportion of UC is the “no working requirements” group, which is at 50% and rising. So no, the majority of UC is not paid to the “working poor”. These are the governments own statistics.

theyneverchangedothey · 18/09/2026 12:42

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 11:51

No. Not just that. The news cycle for the last 24 hrs in the UK is frankly absolutely appalling in conveying what's actually happening and the implications of this.

Today is slowly catching up but it's way behind where it should be, and I'm looking for Burnham and wondering when we are going to get past tumbleweeds for these multiple incoming crisis.

Let me spell this out. Burnham's quote about social security before national security from last week I think it was is abject nonsense at this point. And I LIKE Burnham. There is no capacity for social security if you are not economically independent enough to avoid global shocks. You get forced into a position where you have to be active rather than completely passive.

I'm reading all the threads about benefits and pensions and houseprices etc on MN ATM and going "fuuuuuuccckkkk this country has no clue what's going on".

Let me explain: Diesel is driving everything now. There is a global diesel shortage. It makes everyone in the world vulnerable. Everyone. More so than oil. More so than a lack of fertiliser.

I'll start with fertiliser though. The Iran conflict meant a huge amount of fertiliser wasn't exported from the gulf earlier this year. Prices skyrocketed. For the most part Western countries bought enough for their own production but many less well off countries didn't. So when crops which over the next six months to twelve months will be harvested, yields will be down massively. Western country are not self sufficient. But they can outbid other countries. There WILL be famine in parts of the world next year which are poor. This means significant civil unrest and that's going to affect production and imports/exports. And of course this means economic downturn across the world. As well as lots of migration. This is already baked in to what's going to happen. It's done. The moment has passed. Crops are already in the ground (or didn't get put in the ground). Food availability and price in the UK WILL be directly affected. It will be significant.

Let's talk about diesel next. Diesel is essential for trucks, trains and tractors. These Three Ts are our logistics backbone. Without them everything else falls apart. Also, what do you think cargo ships run on? There is a worldwide shortage. Oil itself is only part of the equation. It's about how much diesel you can also refine. Refinery capacity is a massive issue at this point - why?

The blockade led to contingency plans and other countries putting up production to adjust. Iraq was one of those who had done this most. They are trucking out oil through Syria under escort. That's Syria who have riots following the government there putting up fuel prices. (More instability). This is a very vulnerable and unstable route.

This week Saudi Arabia has had a massive problem with being bombed by the Yemenis. It's not just about Iran. The work around for Hormuz was the West-East pipeline to the Red Sea and the port of Yanbu (don't laugh it's a real place). At Yanbu was a refinery and storage tanks. The pipeline has been hit at three pumping stations. And the refinery and storage tanks have been hit. This wiped out the supply they had sold to Europe. Apparently a limited flow is going to be restored in a couple of days but in reality the area isn't secure so will continue to be a target. The Saudis cancelled expected deliveries to Europe for the end of September and this is thought is going to last until November at the earliest. This has left European oil companies panic buying to keep refineries going. From what I understand they've managed this at some expense (for now). The Saudis have instead refocused and their new contingency plan is to truck to Oman. This route is risky and expensive. And the oil is going to Asia not Europe. Yesterday the Saudis started to try and buy diesel from Europe. (Think about this HARD about what this implies). To get oil out to refine to diesel, Saudi Arabia is now having to import diesel which it was self sufficient in. This is effectively something of a death spiral in terms of costs and availability for Saudi oil production and exports. Unless it can fix it's security issue. And fast. The UK has refused military support but said it was considering sending advisors. Pakistan has now said it will offer support in line with it's defensive pact with Saudi.

Meanwhile, the US is largely self sufficient in diesel. It is the world's biggest exporter. I say largely self sufficient but this doesn't really fully explain the problem. The US is running all its refineries almost at full capacity. One went down this week. No production for two days now. The autumn is when the US normally schedules refinery maintenance. There isn't capacity for this (see above point about refinery going down). They import most of the rest of their diesel from a country named Canada...

That same Canada that just told the US to fuck off.

The US has said that it's considering banning diesel exports to protect prices. Except this only will bring short term relief to the US before making the situation worse because of the implications to the rest of the world and prices. It will be a disaster if they go down this route.

The UK. The UK had capacity to refine 50% of our own diesel. The rest we mainly get from the Netherlands but some from the Middle East. This makes us somewhat vulnerable. Especially with being outside the EU. Cos what might the EU decide to do? We have a grand total of four refineries - which I expect will soon have increased security if they don't already.

Libya. This week three of Libya's refineries had to go out of production due to unrest. Italy imports 25% of its diesel from Libya. Guess what Italian PM Meloni did yesterday? She had a trip to Norway. Can anyone think why?

Enter Russia v Ukraine into this equation.

Yesterday there was an air raid warning in two cities. Polish cities. There were sirens as Airspace was closed for military operations. President Tusk then did a lengthy speech detailing why. I won't go into details but it's basically about 'accidental' incidents on the border and multiple ongoing sabotage issues across Europe that haven't had a proper political response. He spoke of Russia having no where to go and putting pressure on western nations by taking advantage of issues with energy.

Russia has spent months poking Europe with sabotage attempts. Last week the Germans publicly accused them of an attack on Leipzig airport but it's not the only one - just the only one publicly attributed to Russia by a government. They have also targeted power stations. Yesterday the Dutch Railway system had a major issue due to sabotage in twenty places. These have all been infrastructure and logistics.

Within Ukraine they have been bombing petrol stations. And have started targeting border areas.

France has emergency meeting security briefing between all the party leaders. It has fishermen protesting outside oil refineries about the cost of diesel. Macron gave the reason for the meeting as necessary due to the 'significant shift in international politics'. This is highly unusual.

The energy price cap is due to be reviewed in Jan. Martin Lewis is reporting this will be a 24-25% increase due to the cost of gas. It's now almost inevitable.

So it doesn't matter what the fuck Burnham wants to do with social security. Social security isn't available if you've got no sodding diesel, you aren't self sufficient for food and you can't afford heating because it's gone up why beyond any inflationary increase. If you can't export shit to get money, due to a lack of diesel and a lack of customers cos they are busy dying or fighting a war you are in complete fucking denial about and are trying to stay out of despite the fact Russia has made it perfectly clear they see your country as a target. I mean Starmer was personally targeted with arson by two Romanians recruited on telegram by a Russian speaker. Look at this article for the shit show of trying to pretend it's not Russia.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgmdjpmmng7o

Yesterday marked a shift in language by Tusk (and other European leaders) as addressing this all as state sponsored terrorism - something which can and has triggered article 5 (9/11). Certainly it reaches the threshold for article 4 of NATO. (Basically this is what has now happened - we are into article 4 at least unofficially with Tusks speech)

Russia on its part has essentially considered itself at war with NATO since 2014.

Zelenskyy said yesterday words to the effect that he now thought China was supporting Russia due to components in North Korean missiles that had hit Ukraine.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte said earlier this week they are preparing for a scenario of war in Europe and Taiwan.

Secretary General Mark Rutte says NATO's force planning has to account for a “simultaneous multi-theatre conflict”, including the possibility that a Chinese move against Taiwan could coincide with Russian military action in Europe. Rutte's concern is that Beijing could turn to Moscow to keep the United States and its European allies occupied while China moves against Taiwan.

“You would have a serious problem in both theatres
.”

China has also been stockpiling gold for sometime. You do this if you are worried about economic stability. Trump has given lots of reasons for this. The Dutch, French and German government have over the last 18 months moved their gold to London.

The US military bases in the Middle East have got hammered to the point that it's questionable if some are still operational.

Noting Amazon also said their Cloud facility in UAE is beyond repair and are abandoning it and the data stored in it.

Pretty much all this has been building up for the past ten days.

Yesterday I was going slightly potty going why the fuck is this not being adequately spelt out in the UK. Today - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmn0jke547r5o
There are also other articles in the newspapers from heavy weight journalists starting to ask questions including wtf is Burnham playing at on these subjects.

Events, dear boy, events.

We are in uncharted waters and no fucker seems to have realised properly in the UK yet.

It has already happened and we've slept walked into this.

Wakey wakey.

Talk of social security is so June 2026. We should be talking quite seriously what plans there are in place in terms of rolling blackouts, fuel and food rationing. Because honestly, this is where we are and how perilously close to this being a necessity not even a possibility. This is the shift in risk profile that the government needs to be looking going into winter 2026.

The whole damn country and all the ideological crap from successive governments is becoming increasingly somewhat irrelevant at this because there will not be alternative options available. Anyone still blowing hot air about triple locks and who gets what benefits could be in for a rude bloody awakening. Brexit was enough of a farce because of the total lack of understanding of supply chains and logistics within parliament on all sides of the house and amongst the public. And COVID was it's own special shit show.

This is real. This is happening. Much of it is already set in motion and not resolvable even if the war in the Middle East was resolved tomorrow. It's about infrastructure damage already done and how this means serious political recalculations around the globe are now being done. This is affecting what hostile nations are looking at and willing to capitalise on due to Western strategic weaknesses. Even if we say "oh we don't want to get involved in a Russian conflict", Russia thinks we've been hitting it for over a decade so will seek to punish. We don't get that wet excuse to fall behind because this is all 'a bit scary'.

All this is verifiable, strong and reputable sources. I have spent the last week making sure of this. Don't believe me or think I'm scaremongering, get the fuck off MN and go check for yourselves.

I am NOT expecting nukes. There does not need to be nukes. Missiles are expensive. Drones arent. And they can be hidden and launched in close proximity to a target. Ukraine is hitting the far into Russia this way. It's a war on logistics and infrastructure and economic realities. It's already happening. And at least unofficially Article 4 just got triggered in terms of saying shit has got real and you need to take this threat seriously and stop pissing about.

Burnham needs to step the fuck up.

Agree with all of this. Why do we think the government have started talking about “el Nino” and asking people to prepare? There is a crisis coming and it’s fuck all to do with the weather.

EasternStandard · 18/09/2026 12:46

It’s an interesting post, won’t quote again as quite long. But read it and seems to make sense.

NorthXNorthWest · 18/09/2026 13:07

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 11:51

No. Not just that. The news cycle for the last 24 hrs in the UK is frankly absolutely appalling in conveying what's actually happening and the implications of this.

Today is slowly catching up but it's way behind where it should be, and I'm looking for Burnham and wondering when we are going to get past tumbleweeds for these multiple incoming crisis.

Let me spell this out. Burnham's quote about social security before national security from last week I think it was is abject nonsense at this point. And I LIKE Burnham. There is no capacity for social security if you are not economically independent enough to avoid global shocks. You get forced into a position where you have to be active rather than completely passive.

I'm reading all the threads about benefits and pensions and houseprices etc on MN ATM and going "fuuuuuuccckkkk this country has no clue what's going on".

Let me explain: Diesel is driving everything now. There is a global diesel shortage. It makes everyone in the world vulnerable. Everyone. More so than oil. More so than a lack of fertiliser.

I'll start with fertiliser though. The Iran conflict meant a huge amount of fertiliser wasn't exported from the gulf earlier this year. Prices skyrocketed. For the most part Western countries bought enough for their own production but many less well off countries didn't. So when crops which over the next six months to twelve months will be harvested, yields will be down massively. Western country are not self sufficient. But they can outbid other countries. There WILL be famine in parts of the world next year which are poor. This means significant civil unrest and that's going to affect production and imports/exports. And of course this means economic downturn across the world. As well as lots of migration. This is already baked in to what's going to happen. It's done. The moment has passed. Crops are already in the ground (or didn't get put in the ground). Food availability and price in the UK WILL be directly affected. It will be significant.

Let's talk about diesel next. Diesel is essential for trucks, trains and tractors. These Three Ts are our logistics backbone. Without them everything else falls apart. Also, what do you think cargo ships run on? There is a worldwide shortage. Oil itself is only part of the equation. It's about how much diesel you can also refine. Refinery capacity is a massive issue at this point - why?

The blockade led to contingency plans and other countries putting up production to adjust. Iraq was one of those who had done this most. They are trucking out oil through Syria under escort. That's Syria who have riots following the government there putting up fuel prices. (More instability). This is a very vulnerable and unstable route.

This week Saudi Arabia has had a massive problem with being bombed by the Yemenis. It's not just about Iran. The work around for Hormuz was the West-East pipeline to the Red Sea and the port of Yanbu (don't laugh it's a real place). At Yanbu was a refinery and storage tanks. The pipeline has been hit at three pumping stations. And the refinery and storage tanks have been hit. This wiped out the supply they had sold to Europe. Apparently a limited flow is going to be restored in a couple of days but in reality the area isn't secure so will continue to be a target. The Saudis cancelled expected deliveries to Europe for the end of September and this is thought is going to last until November at the earliest. This has left European oil companies panic buying to keep refineries going. From what I understand they've managed this at some expense (for now). The Saudis have instead refocused and their new contingency plan is to truck to Oman. This route is risky and expensive. And the oil is going to Asia not Europe. Yesterday the Saudis started to try and buy diesel from Europe. (Think about this HARD about what this implies). To get oil out to refine to diesel, Saudi Arabia is now having to import diesel which it was self sufficient in. This is effectively something of a death spiral in terms of costs and availability for Saudi oil production and exports. Unless it can fix it's security issue. And fast. The UK has refused military support but said it was considering sending advisors. Pakistan has now said it will offer support in line with it's defensive pact with Saudi.

Meanwhile, the US is largely self sufficient in diesel. It is the world's biggest exporter. I say largely self sufficient but this doesn't really fully explain the problem. The US is running all its refineries almost at full capacity. One went down this week. No production for two days now. The autumn is when the US normally schedules refinery maintenance. There isn't capacity for this (see above point about refinery going down). They import most of the rest of their diesel from a country named Canada...

That same Canada that just told the US to fuck off.

The US has said that it's considering banning diesel exports to protect prices. Except this only will bring short term relief to the US before making the situation worse because of the implications to the rest of the world and prices. It will be a disaster if they go down this route.

The UK. The UK had capacity to refine 50% of our own diesel. The rest we mainly get from the Netherlands but some from the Middle East. This makes us somewhat vulnerable. Especially with being outside the EU. Cos what might the EU decide to do? We have a grand total of four refineries - which I expect will soon have increased security if they don't already.

Libya. This week three of Libya's refineries had to go out of production due to unrest. Italy imports 25% of its diesel from Libya. Guess what Italian PM Meloni did yesterday? She had a trip to Norway. Can anyone think why?

Enter Russia v Ukraine into this equation.

Yesterday there was an air raid warning in two cities. Polish cities. There were sirens as Airspace was closed for military operations. President Tusk then did a lengthy speech detailing why. I won't go into details but it's basically about 'accidental' incidents on the border and multiple ongoing sabotage issues across Europe that haven't had a proper political response. He spoke of Russia having no where to go and putting pressure on western nations by taking advantage of issues with energy.

Russia has spent months poking Europe with sabotage attempts. Last week the Germans publicly accused them of an attack on Leipzig airport but it's not the only one - just the only one publicly attributed to Russia by a government. They have also targeted power stations. Yesterday the Dutch Railway system had a major issue due to sabotage in twenty places. These have all been infrastructure and logistics.

Within Ukraine they have been bombing petrol stations. And have started targeting border areas.

France has emergency meeting security briefing between all the party leaders. It has fishermen protesting outside oil refineries about the cost of diesel. Macron gave the reason for the meeting as necessary due to the 'significant shift in international politics'. This is highly unusual.

The energy price cap is due to be reviewed in Jan. Martin Lewis is reporting this will be a 24-25% increase due to the cost of gas. It's now almost inevitable.

So it doesn't matter what the fuck Burnham wants to do with social security. Social security isn't available if you've got no sodding diesel, you aren't self sufficient for food and you can't afford heating because it's gone up why beyond any inflationary increase. If you can't export shit to get money, due to a lack of diesel and a lack of customers cos they are busy dying or fighting a war you are in complete fucking denial about and are trying to stay out of despite the fact Russia has made it perfectly clear they see your country as a target. I mean Starmer was personally targeted with arson by two Romanians recruited on telegram by a Russian speaker. Look at this article for the shit show of trying to pretend it's not Russia.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgmdjpmmng7o

Yesterday marked a shift in language by Tusk (and other European leaders) as addressing this all as state sponsored terrorism - something which can and has triggered article 5 (9/11). Certainly it reaches the threshold for article 4 of NATO. (Basically this is what has now happened - we are into article 4 at least unofficially with Tusks speech)

Russia on its part has essentially considered itself at war with NATO since 2014.

Zelenskyy said yesterday words to the effect that he now thought China was supporting Russia due to components in North Korean missiles that had hit Ukraine.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte said earlier this week they are preparing for a scenario of war in Europe and Taiwan.

Secretary General Mark Rutte says NATO's force planning has to account for a “simultaneous multi-theatre conflict”, including the possibility that a Chinese move against Taiwan could coincide with Russian military action in Europe. Rutte's concern is that Beijing could turn to Moscow to keep the United States and its European allies occupied while China moves against Taiwan.

“You would have a serious problem in both theatres
.”

China has also been stockpiling gold for sometime. You do this if you are worried about economic stability. Trump has given lots of reasons for this. The Dutch, French and German government have over the last 18 months moved their gold to London.

The US military bases in the Middle East have got hammered to the point that it's questionable if some are still operational.

Noting Amazon also said their Cloud facility in UAE is beyond repair and are abandoning it and the data stored in it.

Pretty much all this has been building up for the past ten days.

Yesterday I was going slightly potty going why the fuck is this not being adequately spelt out in the UK. Today - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmn0jke547r5o
There are also other articles in the newspapers from heavy weight journalists starting to ask questions including wtf is Burnham playing at on these subjects.

Events, dear boy, events.

We are in uncharted waters and no fucker seems to have realised properly in the UK yet.

It has already happened and we've slept walked into this.

Wakey wakey.

Talk of social security is so June 2026. We should be talking quite seriously what plans there are in place in terms of rolling blackouts, fuel and food rationing. Because honestly, this is where we are and how perilously close to this being a necessity not even a possibility. This is the shift in risk profile that the government needs to be looking going into winter 2026.

The whole damn country and all the ideological crap from successive governments is becoming increasingly somewhat irrelevant at this because there will not be alternative options available. Anyone still blowing hot air about triple locks and who gets what benefits could be in for a rude bloody awakening. Brexit was enough of a farce because of the total lack of understanding of supply chains and logistics within parliament on all sides of the house and amongst the public. And COVID was it's own special shit show.

This is real. This is happening. Much of it is already set in motion and not resolvable even if the war in the Middle East was resolved tomorrow. It's about infrastructure damage already done and how this means serious political recalculations around the globe are now being done. This is affecting what hostile nations are looking at and willing to capitalise on due to Western strategic weaknesses. Even if we say "oh we don't want to get involved in a Russian conflict", Russia thinks we've been hitting it for over a decade so will seek to punish. We don't get that wet excuse to fall behind because this is all 'a bit scary'.

All this is verifiable, strong and reputable sources. I have spent the last week making sure of this. Don't believe me or think I'm scaremongering, get the fuck off MN and go check for yourselves.

I am NOT expecting nukes. There does not need to be nukes. Missiles are expensive. Drones arent. And they can be hidden and launched in close proximity to a target. Ukraine is hitting the far into Russia this way. It's a war on logistics and infrastructure and economic realities. It's already happening. And at least unofficially Article 4 just got triggered in terms of saying shit has got real and you need to take this threat seriously and stop pissing about.

Burnham needs to step the fuck up.

Interesting and informative read. Thanks for all the time you have put into that.

TemperanceWest · 18/09/2026 13:07

What should Burnham be doing in your opinion @RedToothBrush ? And how do we know he isn't doing anything?

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 13:25

Macron has just held his meeting. ATM he's doing a press conference so I'm waiting to get an English translation or written french one so I can see what he's said.

I've seen comments from two politicians who were at the meeting so far. One (a french left wing politician) has said that the french government do not yet understand the full implications of the fuel crisis but that he believed it would need 'massive aid' to help those most critically affected.

My initial read out from that is that Burnham being left wing himself will be under considerable pressure to announce some sort of crisis measure very very soon.

He won't have much room to move.

This means the upcoming budget plan that he had is totally in the bin.

But the point is, he needs to be showing initiative and at least acknowledging there's a problem coming, sooner rather than later.

Schlossadler · 18/09/2026 13:25

TemperanceWest · 18/09/2026 13:07

What should Burnham be doing in your opinion @RedToothBrush ? And how do we know he isn't doing anything?

Thats not fair @TemperanceWest

He’s capped the bus fares (from 2027)…..

Ps. Where’s your mate gone? Cat got her tongue?

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 18/09/2026 13:28

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 13:25

Macron has just held his meeting. ATM he's doing a press conference so I'm waiting to get an English translation or written french one so I can see what he's said.

I've seen comments from two politicians who were at the meeting so far. One (a french left wing politician) has said that the french government do not yet understand the full implications of the fuel crisis but that he believed it would need 'massive aid' to help those most critically affected.

My initial read out from that is that Burnham being left wing himself will be under considerable pressure to announce some sort of crisis measure very very soon.

He won't have much room to move.

This means the upcoming budget plan that he had is totally in the bin.

But the point is, he needs to be showing initiative and at least acknowledging there's a problem coming, sooner rather than later.

We had energy crisis measures under the last gov, Labour don’t have much room for the same.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 13:31

TemperanceWest · 18/09/2026 13:07

What should Burnham be doing in your opinion @RedToothBrush ? And how do we know he isn't doing anything?

Preparing the public and managing the press is a key thing in a crisis, particularly of this kind. Otherwise what he does behind the scenes can quickly become irrelevant in its own right because he loses control of the narrative which is important to maintain order and stop panic.

Given what Macron and Tusk have done today and yesterday, it now begs some kind of guidance.

Tumbleweeds isnt good enough.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 13:31

EasternStandard · 18/09/2026 13:28

We had energy crisis measures under the last gov, Labour don’t have much room for the same.

Quite. It's a really really grim readout.

Schlossadler · 18/09/2026 13:32

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2026 13:31

Preparing the public and managing the press is a key thing in a crisis, particularly of this kind. Otherwise what he does behind the scenes can quickly become irrelevant in its own right because he loses control of the narrative which is important to maintain order and stop panic.

Given what Macron and Tusk have done today and yesterday, it now begs some kind of guidance.

Tumbleweeds isnt good enough.

Nor are vibes….

OP posts:
Pineneedlesincarpet · 18/09/2026 13:33

God..who would be PM. His tiktoks about pork scratchings look even more ridiculous now. Serious leader for serious times needed.

Meandthegherkin · 18/09/2026 13:33

Is there likely to be any serious movement on exploiting what we can from the North Sea, given prices shooting up might mean what seemed marginal or too expensive before might be worthwhile? Or is it just too late?

EasternStandard · 18/09/2026 13:34

Meandthegherkin · 18/09/2026 13:33

Is there likely to be any serious movement on exploiting what we can from the North Sea, given prices shooting up might mean what seemed marginal or too expensive before might be worthwhile? Or is it just too late?

Idk but the Holborn by-election may be a factor for delay.

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