How far has the U.S moved towards fascism? Poll

[Newbutoldfather]

I think this would be an interesting poll to do.

I have discussions with both right wing friends and left wing friends and, as you would imagine, I get very polarised views. On the one hand, Trump is seen as a refreshing antidote to the casual left wing dominance of society and groupthink. On the other, we are moving step by step towards the third Reich or Putin’s Russia.

Personally, I think Trump has some dangerously authoritarian tendencies but, on the whole, democracy is holding up well.

Abhannmor, you nailed it. However, I don't believe anyone imagined people like Marjorie Taylor Green, Jim Jordan and that woman who joyfully killed her dog with an AK, would have places of influence in our government. Yes, Repubs lose the popular vote because Cal. and NY don't vote for petty tyrants. Other states do.

So, the result of my less than rigorous, though nonetheless interesting poll is, on a scale of 1-5, where one is a total democracy and 5 is a total dictatorship:

Mean 3.05
Median: circa 2.3

I guess it is quite scary that people already think, on average, that the U.S is half way to a fascist state.

I don’t think, personally, that it is quite that bad, but the direction of travel should be clear over the next twelve months as we see whether court rulings are respected and what happens in the mid terms.

I've been watching Pelosi speeches since the election. Goodness that's elder abuse by the party machine.

Just Asking, and your point is?

4.5 on the scale to fascism. I see the uniformed agents. My friends WITH documents are fearful.

I think the thing is you're not at fascism when they Do The Things; you're already there when they threaten to do it and there is nothing in place to stop them from doing it (or if there is, it doesn't have teeth and they are empowered to ignore it).

Same here. My aunt immigrated to USA in the 1970s. She is an American citizen with an American passport. Her daughter was born there.

At the minute my cousin is in Africa, she posted stuff about the No Kings protest and the big beautiful parade over the weekend and my aunt fears she may not be allowed to come home.

This is where the land of the free and free speech is now.

Echobelly, you lost me. We are imprisoning people without hearings. Due process is not an option, it is mandatory. NO PERSON shall be deprived of life, liberty of property with out due process. It is happening, anyway.

Totally agree @CATomas, I'm not saying that the Things aren't already happening, but people haven't gathered that the US was already there before they started effectively kidnapping people and taking them to overseas torture jails without due process.

Yes, my mum's sister, who lives in Eastern Europe, was going to be visited by her daughter and daughter's partner, who live in the US. They cancelled their visit because they were worried they won't be allowed back in the US, even though her daughter has a green card and her partner is a US citizen from birth (but not white, and parents were immigrants) - and sadly I don't think that's being over anxious, just too many risk factors.

It’s when the law is finished that fascism arrives, when law enforcement is too scared to do anything other than the government’s bidding; when they stop bothering with lawyers and just have secret police that can do as it pleases, no concerns, and anyone who says otherwise disappears or is terrorized into silence.

The US looks more like a South American republic ready for a coup than its old self, which is techinogical, educated and a world leader. Trump and his supporters aren’t stupid, they are deadly serious.

Of course the US is a democracy. Seven months ago the American people voted to sack their federal government. Power was then peacefully transferred to the newly elected administration. That is the definition of democracy.

Is American democracy perfect? Of course not. The corporations, billionaires etc who fund it have far too much power. But British democracy isn’t perfect either (FPTP is not fit for purpose) or French democracy (President has too much power) or German democracy (sclerotic coalitions) etc etc.

Of course the US is a democracy. Seven months ago the American people voted to sack their federal government. Power was then peacefully transferred to the newly elected administration. That is the definition of democracy.

Thats because Harris, Biden and the Democratic party peacefully transferred it. The current POTUS called for vote rigging and a violent insurrection when he was democratically voted out. He's been eroding freedom and democracy since he took office 5 months ago.

I asked my political mentor, Rick fromThe Young Ones, and he said that the US is an utter, utter, utter, utter fascist Nazi state.

Which I think speaks for much of Mumsnet. And therefore must be true.

🙄

Ahh, Rik Mayall.💔 He knew his stuff. I'd love to have seen his Alan B'stard take on Trump.

The fascist takeover is happening. One leader who cannot be questioned. Rigged election. (Do you really think Trump won every swing state?) Further election rigging by demanding IDs at voting stations. (Voter suppression. The voting stations have everyone's name and address on a list. No one can just walk in and say "I'm Joe. I'm here to vote.") Armed police arresting people who look different. (Different in So. Cal? Everybody is different.) Imprisonment without a hearing. The Trump regime is going to open new prisons for immigrants, privately run by Trump cronies for a profit. This is scary stuff.

First, I really LOVE your poll - but how does one do polls here? And did it have to close so quickly?

Second, you're right that there's a distinction between Trump and America, but I don't think your choices reflect that, although I guess they're meant to be on a continuum.

Trump himself is horrifyingly authoritarian, and one puzzling thing is that Republicans/Conservatives don't seem to grasp that a businessman, even a good one (which Trump is not) would not have the right mindset for a president. A corporation isn't run like a democracy.

So for me, yes, TRUMP is fully authoritarian. But AMERICA isn't. Yet. It remains to be seen how it will play out, as millions of us wait fearfully, waiting to see how the courts will respond, whether Republican senators will stand up for what's right, and what will happen in the mid-term elections next year.

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

Yes, indeedy. Reportedly 5 million Americans protested on Saturday!

The system is doing a terrible job constraining him! Just like before!

I've been repeatedly grousing about how I don't see the point of having laws/regulations if there's no punishment for violating them.

Well, you should care, because Trump's evils are infecting the larger world.

Well said!

Yes that was lovely to see. At the time I posted the National Guard were randomly shooting people including journalists.

Sure, if you don’t mind being tear gassed, water cannoned or shot by the National Guard (who appear, uninvited by the Governor of the county, directly contravening protocol).

Sad to see it in my lifetime.

@Spirallingdownwards ,

Is that really true? That is why I think this discussion is so polarised.

Are they shooting or using rubber bullets? And is this during a riot or a peaceful protest?