How far has the U.S moved towards fascism? Poll

[Newbutoldfather]

I think this would be an interesting poll to do.

I have discussions with both right wing friends and left wing friends and, as you would imagine, I get very polarised views. On the one hand, Trump is seen as a refreshing antidote to the casual left wing dominance of society and groupthink. On the other, we are moving step by step towards the third Reich or Putin’s Russia.

Personally, I think Trump has some dangerously authoritarian tendencies but, on the whole, democracy is holding up well.

Newbutold, it is both a riot and a peaceful protest. There are peaceful protesters and interlopers who simply enjoy disruption. The latter fuck it up for the former and the rest of us.

And what is being lost in all this is the police state wherein people are arrested, incarcerated without bail and held without a hearing. Why? Because they might be here without legal authority. But, the cops do not know this. Some have papers, some do not, but they are here to work. Period. Shame on the U.S.

When protesters start building road block, torching cars, looting. All protesters Risk getting swept up by in it. Arrested, held without bail.

And I know that there are professional trouble makers which is why I wouldn't be sucked in.

@CATomas ,

‘And what is being lost in all this is the police state wherein people are arrested, incarcerated without bail and held without a hearing. Why? Because they might be here without legal authority. But, the cops do not know this. Some have papers, some do not, but they are here to work. Period. Shame on the U.S’

You see, whilst I agree that some of the above has happened, and it is a shameful move in the direction of the police state, it is still nowhere near a police state.

I don’t think more than a handful of people (maybe not even a handful) have been incarcerated for more than a few hours without people knowing where they are or them being given access to a lawyer.

If you compare that with true police states where people simply disappear, it is miles away.

This is where the poll average is probably a more accurate assessment than those who either think the U.S is still a fully functioning democracy and those who believe it to be a police state.

You miss the point. The rioters who are committing crimes must be observed by the police. The suspected undocumented aliens are being arrested without probable cause. Two separate issues.

I think Trump’s style was well illustrated today. He tells the camera: I don’t know. They say this might happen, that might. A lot of bad things might happen. We’ll have to wait and see”.

In other words, here’s some rambling bullshit, people! That’ll do. Well manage the real decisions elsewhere, with the grownups.

WTF? Where was this?
Overall, extraordinarily peaceful, considering so many millions were involved.
It's never a good idea to shoot a journalist.

Right. I hope the miseries of the U.S. function as a cautionary tale for the U.K.

Exactly. I think both the first and fifth option were perhaps not ...accurate chosen.

Excuse me, @MrsBennetsPoorNerves, but I disagree with your saying:
So I think the poll is fundamentally flawed and doesn't tell us anything about how concerned people actually are about the direction in which the US is headed.

That's not what this poll is about. This poll is about the perception of the current situation, not the level of concern, present or future. That's not a flaw. That's just not what the OP was asking. There are opportunities for all kinds of polls. In fact, I'm dying to find out how to create them.

Yes, excellent re-wording.

I agree but it's also an indication of his general ignorance. He has no idea how the government functions.

This is what happens when people are stupid enough to vote for a failed businessman without a shred of political experience - and no interest in learning.

OK, you're right - it's about the perception of the current situation rather than the level of concern per se, though I would like to think that most people would be concerned about any perceived drift towards fascism.

I still think the poll is flawed though, because the options on a scale of 1 to 5 should represent a progressive increase from one point to the next, and I don't think the descriptions reflected that.

Watch as the one turns directly to her and shoots while she is reporting - LA - 9 June 2025

Is that the Australian? I heard about that, but that seemed like an isolated incident and not, I think, on No King day, which I thought was what was being discussed.

But it still evidences that although there is a legal right to protest and report on it the reality is the US is not allowing people to protest, which was what my original comment alluded to.

I've been thinking that if we do get fair and free elections in the US next time around (which I am doubting at the moment), and obviously one hopes these vile people will be shown the door, then a bunch of people will say 'See, you were worried about nothing.

But then, who's to say there would have been fair and free elections if huges numbers of people had not been calling out fascistic behaviour which might have held them back because they knew people were alive to what they were doing?

I can't see the elections being free at all and I would not be shocked if it's the same elections Putin likes to hold.

The sad thing is how it impacts us because we have no say in it but America seems to dictate our own policies.

It doesn't seem likely, does it? they know they'll lose in fair elections, so they either will find an excuse not to have them, or have them and just make up the results or find a reason to declare the other side's victory void. They have already pushed way beyond the existing laws in enough things, there's no reason I can see that they wouldn't do it at an election.

That doesn't shock me, what shocks me is the silence.....that scares the hell out of me.

Id like to know where these ICE agents were recruited from....I think there's something going off there that needs scrutiny

@Echobelly ,

‘But then, who's to say there would have been fair and free elections if huges numbers of people had not been calling out fascistic behaviour which might have held them back because they knew people were alive to what they were doing?’

People think ‘calling out’ has some kind of power. I don’t believe it has any at all. A bunch of people writing posts on social media has zero power at all.

Now, facts can alter people’s opinion and so can falsehoods if people believe them to be facts but a bunch of people calling Trump out on social media might be cathartic, but it will influence absolutely nothing.

You're probably right, I certainly don't think thy administration cares very much what anyone thinks or says.

Starmer is starting push my patience, at some point he's going to have to call it what it is. America is no longer a reliable ally and I'd say that they may well become our next enemy.

America is fast becoming a state that's departed our alliance and views the world very differently. We have to defend our values and beliefs because if Trump turns into a dictator then it's better we part ways now .

That's unless you want masked men deporting people because they don't share there views.

No, no, no, no, no!

Feel free to say:
"There are disturbing elements in law enforcement who seem to believe that people should not be allowed to protest"
OR
"There are worrisome trends indicating a willingness to crack down on protests"

But you may not say that the US is not allowing people to protest. That would be an outright lie, since reportedly 5,000,000 people did in fact protest on No Kings Day.