Trump vs Clinton Round 2. Bigger debate than the last one.

[claig]

Round 2, Monday morning 2 am UK time.

Will "the real Trump" show up?

It was top of the BBC news at ten tonight.

Sorry, my mistake - Paul Ryan is Speaker of the House of Representatives.

I question if HC has the ability to negotiate with Russia.

And Trump does?

euromaidanpress.com/2016/07/31/trump-is-putins-most-useful-idiot-because-he-believes-what-he-says-piontkovsky-says/#arvlbdat

Further to the above, re victims coming forward with complaints about sexual harassment.

And:

'Expert’ Carrie Fisher says Trump’s sniffles are ‘ABSOLUTELY’ a sign of cocaine use.

The last country I want to go against is Russia because if you look at history they are some of the nastiest fighters out there. American won't win

The US have done very little since WWII but going against Russia, or most of the world would probably have been communist by now. After a short period when they almost became allies, Putin rose to power and has been seeking to regain the position that Russia once had. Even Hillary isn't interested in going directly against Russia. However, no President of the US can afford to pander to Putin. In fact, the world can't afford to pander to Putin. Look at Syria and who is really getting bombed by the Russian's military. What is dangerous is to underestimate Putin.

On policy I see no big difference between the presentation of the plans on the websites (which Hillary does have)

Tax:
www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/a-fair-tax-system/
www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/tax-plan/

Child care (HC proposes paid leave for children and illness)
www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/paid-leave/
www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/child-care/

Hillary's covers a broader range of issues
www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/
www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/

HC is, for example, the only one mentioning Disability Rights.

As for funding Trump has (it's on financial reports) paid a lot to his own companies and children from the campaign fund, plus he timed previous campaign appearances with paid speeches.
As he said “It’s very possible that I could be the first presidential candidate to run and make money on it,”

fortune.com/2000/04/03/what-does-donald-trump-really-want/
www.nytimes.com/2016/02/06/us/politics/donald-trumps-campaign-billed-as-self-funded-risks-little-of-his-fortune.html?_r=1
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/10/donald-trump/donald-trump-self-funding-his-campaign-sort/

But I don't see it as a problem that a candidate puts more or less money into a campaign. Trump needed to because he was an outsider, with no political funds raising machine, whereas HC did.
Candidates shouldn't have to be rich to run for President. Nor should they have to contribute from their personal finances. They are already contributing their own person. :)

Regarding polls, some give quite different results

Poll ......................................... Date....................Sample ........Spread
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl..........10/8 - 10/9.........447 LV..........Clinton +14
Economist/YouGov.................10/7 - 10/8....... 971 RV...........Clinton +5

LA Times/USC Tracking..........10/3 - 10/9.......2893 LV...........Trump +3
NBC News/SM.........................10/3 - 10/9.....23329 LV...........Clinton +7

Notice the dates, though. The top two reflect latest events, but with smaller sample sizes, whereas the bottom two cover a longer time but with a larger sample size.
Still, I wouldn't say Trump is beaten.

It was top of the Ten O Clock news because by then (some) polls showed a +11 lead for Clinton. It's very simple . U p bulletin - good news for Clinton. Down bulletin (or absent ) good news for Trump.

I think it's very dangerous to assume or say Trump may be beaten with weeks still to go. I did wonder about cocaine use too but didn't mention it as it was an easy jibe to make. However, he would be the sort who needs to be totally pumped up before a debate so nothing would surprise me anymore.

The cocaine suggestion had been put forward after the first debate, hadn't it?

It's surprising that it was an issue again in the second debate. And it was quite noticeable. Particularly when he wasn't very much at ease.

Rudy Giuliani is still making an arse of himself:
"During a warm-up speech at the Wilkes-Barre rally, Giuliani made a quip about it during an attack on Clinton. He said: “Boy, she is as phony as … I better not say, as I have to be nice. I might say it back in the locker room.”"

'It was top of the Ten O Clock news because by then (some) polls showed a +11 lead for Clinton'

Yes and the first thing the BBC said was "another senior Republican withdraws support from Trump" and mentioned the Paul RINO's withdrawal of support. So it was the negative off the bat stuff and not Trump's victory in the debate. If it is negative for Trump, they give it full welly, if it is positive for Trump, they report on Ed Miliband's socks instead.

What matters the most are results at swing states, though.
I expect they will be coming out in the next couple of weeks.

Claig this is it - absolutely. It was easy to see Trump had won the debate the morning after because of the BBC's reporting style.

I can't understand how Trump can lie so blatantly and not be picked up on it. He is sleezy and a predatory sex pest by his own admission.

I did wonder why there are no women coming out in the open to complain about him but of course he is a billionaire! Some pretty hefty payoffs and legal gagging orders out there.

I don't know how Hillary refrains from shooting him live on TV

It wasn't a startling win for Trump though was it, so why would the BBC have that as a headline? He did better than last time that's all. I think people were expecting him to implode and he didn't, that's hardly a triumphant win.. I think it's a unanimous view that he didn't win over wavering voters, he just shored up his fanbase.

Women have come forward complaining about Trump. There's a court case, even.
Except that Hillary doesn't take them to a pre-debate conference.

But, like with Trump university, he probably gets away with paying those in charge to let it go.

His lies are fact checked everywhere. But you only have to read these threads to see how Trump fans think.

Lweji: he has to do that because no one else is talking about it. She is getting a free pass from the media, all commentators.

I can't understand how Hillary can lie so blatantly and not be picked up on it.

What did she lie about?

Honest question, i see lots of "she is a liar" but not about what

Or when you look into a bit there doesnt seem to be a lie

I watched the debate and honestly cannot see how Trump won, i can't see how Clinton won either

Oh and i agree with rousette that he did much better than last time

Being able to move round and "engage" is probably more his thing

She lied about Benghazi and her emails for a start. I believe that wrt Benghazi she actually lied to the face to the relatives of the men who died.

Rufus: it speaks to my point about 'being held to account' that you don't see lots of what she lied about. Your BBC and your CNN and your Guardian don't talk about it.

Question re: polling. If you were an undecided woman or minority in the US right now, how likely would you be to tell someone you wanted to vote for Donald Trump.

A unlikely
B very unlikely
C absolutely certain not to

minority member, that should say

no one else is talking about it

They are or did, but they stop talking about each individual Trump scandal. It's just that there's so many that he's constantly in the news. It just feels like it's the same issue all the time.

I don't see anyone talking about his accusation of raping a teenager.

I would like to see what HC's detailed plans are for the economy, how to reduce debt, foreign policy etc. Trump has all his plans laid out on his website

You have to be joking. It's not a plan when any idiot can see that it's completely unworkable.

Interesting discussion on the radio this morning on the "locker room talk" excuse. Men all over the place are saying that they wouldn't dream of talking in the locker room or anywhere else about assaulting women, let alone boasting about it. The fact that Trump thinks that's what "real" men do speaks volumes about how innately misogynistic and sleazy he is by nature.

Trump got this one a bit wrong then.

And people wonder why he won't release his own tax returns?