Trump vs Clinton Round 2. Bigger debate than the last one.

[claig]

Round 2, Monday morning 2 am UK time.

Will "the real Trump" show up?

I couldn't vote for either of them.
Who else is running?

'Who else is running?'

Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party and "What is Aleppo?" fame, and Jill Stein of the Green Party.

Hillary tried to compare herself with Honest Abe Lincoln in the debate and the joke going around about Gary Johnson is that he is googling Abe Lincoln to find out who he is.

Expect nothing different from the BBC. The way you can tell that Trump won the debate, is that the debate was not the top of the news. Any pro-Trump story will be downplayed or not reported at all. If the BBC says it was a tie, Trump won. If the BBC says it was a marginal win for Clinton, it was a Trump win. If it was a marginal win for Clinton, the BBC says she landed hammer blows. You have to read between the lines when you watch or listen to the BBC.

'The way you can tell that Trump won the debate, is that the debate was not the top of the news.'

Excellent observation. It was the same on Channel 4 News. Top story was Theresa May won't allow the Brexit vote of the Remainers and then we had to sit through Ed Miliband doing his River Dance stuff before they got to the US debate.

Whatever anyone thinks of Trump, you've gotta give him credit for the jail line.

It's so predictable, so, so predictable. An absolute inability to conceive that the all right-thinking people do not share their world view.

It's as if by saying it enough times, they think it will become true. An attempt to destroy momentum and any attractive 'aura of success'.

I wonder if the N word is a smear. Telegraph says £5m leak fee. So the smear just hangs around without proof ever needing to be provided. Interesting.

This is sounding a bit like the Chicken Coup or whatever it was called that the Establishment did to Corbyn.

"Jerry Falwell Jr. Says GOP Establishment Leaked Lewd Trump Tape

Jerry Falwell Jr. on Sunday night said he believes the release of the damning audio of Donald Trump's lewd comments about women was the result of a "conspiracy among establishment Republicans."
...
Jerry Falwell Jr. on Sunday night said he believes the release of the damning audio of Donald Trump's lewd comments about women was the result of a "conspiracy among establishment Republicans."

In an exclusive interview with WABC radio host Rita Cosby, the president of Liberty University said, "I'm hearing something of substance, and it's disappointing.

"I think this ... video tape thing was planned, I think it was timed, I think it might have even been a conspiracy among establishment Republicans who have known about it for weeks and who tried to time it to do the maximum damage to Donald Trump, and I just ... I just think it just backfired on them," Falwell Jr. told Cosby.

When Cosby followed up about who he thinks was behind the release of the tape, Falwell wouldn't name names.

"I've got some independent information, but I'm not going to reveal it on the air — but I think some of the establishment folks who reluctantly endorsed him had this planned all along as a way to slither out of the endorsement," Falwell Jr. told Cosby.

www.newsmax.com/Headline/Jerry-Falwell-JrGOP-Leaked-Trump/2016/10/10/id/752521/

Gosh. How underhand. Capable of anything to protect the status quo. They must truly hate the voters.

'It's as if by saying it enough times, they think it will become true. An attempt to destroy momentum and any attractive 'aura of success'.'

Yes, that is how the media works, that is why they are worried that social media and alternative media is eating into their monopoly. They are starting to have to invite Kerry-Ann Mendoza of the left wing The Canary onto the BBC to discuss Corbyn etc in an attempt to appear impartial as they know that the audience knows how it works. And they quote polls that it is neck and neck between Owen Smith and Corbyn.

In Brexit, they did the same, they wanted to create the impression that Brexit would lose. They are trying to sell to the public that Trump will lose to dishearten people and make them think there is no point voting.

Expect nothing different from the BBC. The way you can tell that Trump won the debate, is that the debate was not the top of the news.

Erm it has been top of the news on the BBC website for most of the day...

'I wonder if the N word is a smear. Telegraph says £5m leak fee. So the smear just hangs around without proof ever needing to be provided. Interesting.'

Yes, I read that today in the Daily Mail. They are saying it may never be released. So it may be mud that sticks but may never be released.

I haven't looked at that: I've listened to radio 4. At lunchtime it was almost the last news item.

Yes smear for sure. Impossible to argue against: any suggestion it's not true will be met with 'but he's a racist anyway '. He can't possibly deny it, as that would take it off the gossip Internet and put it on the front pages. Very neatly done.

The real test is the TV news rather than the website. Channel 4 did not have it first. Interesting to see what BBC News at Ten does.

Test it next time elvira- ask yourself after the debate, are you feeling a sense of disappointment, of an opportunity lost? Do it before you look at the BBC analysis. It will be downbeat and a little silly, and you'll be relieved the outcome isn't plastered all over the first half of the bulletin.

Silly = sulky of course

It is interesting that Trump actually warmed up and started asking the really awkward questions. His question about why she hasn't contributed any of her own money into her campaign was a very good question that was brushed aside. With a worth of over $140 million she could put $5 million of her own money in and there be no impact to her family financially. Trump, while he keeps stating he is a billionaire, has put in about 10% of his worth into his campaign.

I also thought the final question was a great question. I thought Trump was honest and he identified her greatest strength. I thought her answer regarding his children was complete PC bollocks and a safe answer that was very rehearsed so she could get away with not actually saying anything positive.

Overall, as a voter who came into this as undecided but leaning towards HC, I am still undecided as what I hate about HC is how rehearsed she is. Her detail on policy is scant at best. Trump has at least laid out his plans. We all know the economy is going to blow up in the coming months. While I don't like Trump, I do believe that what you see is what you get. With HC I am going to be looking at more of this Obama-esque hot air while not accomplishing much of anything.

I'm warming to Donald trump. I hate the sneering so much.

' I thought her answer regarding his children was complete PC bollocks and a safe answer that was very rehearsed so she could get away with not actually saying anything positive.'

Absolutely. Nothing about Trump, just his family. Trump's answer was brilliant because he praised her as a fighter who never gives up, but it was a double-edged sword because it shows how hard she is having to fight against a non-politician who is reviled by the media and Establishment, and the never giving up is a message that she will be losing.

Paul Ryan, whom some Republicans call Paul RINO, has withdrawn his endorsement from Trump.

Trump, while he keeps stating he is a billionaire, has put in about 10% of his worth into his campaign.

IIRC, he lent it to his own campaign.

Her detail on policy is scant at best. Trump has at least laid out his plans.

Are you serious on this?

Trump is the least detailed on policy.

Example:
He'll have a great insurance plan and somehow he will convince insurers to cover pre-existing conditions simply by increasing competition by removing state lines. It may seem like a plan, but I don't see how it will work out.

Lweji Lending to his campaign and giving are very close. Basically the loans are cancelled so you can call it giving. All politicians do this but normally the money is coming from special interests.

I would like to see what HC's detailed plans are for the economy, how to reduce debt, foreign policy etc. Trump has all his plans laid out on his website. HC has not communicated in this way. I also think HC is wrong about Russia. The one big thing that holds me back from voting for her is that I think she has misread the Russians. The last country I want to go against is Russia because if you look at history they are some of the nastiest fighters out there. American won't win. I question if HC has the ability to negotiate with Russia.

I posted some of this on the 'Trump hates women' thread - somehow I missed this thread.

It seems like it's all over - Hillary has opened up at least one double-digit lead in the polls - and now it appears as if Trump knows he's beaten.

As has been said, the Republican speaker in the Senate, Paul Ryan, can no longer support Trump - instead it seems he will concentrate on trying to hang on to the Republican majorities in both houses of Congress. But even that is looking in doubt, since there is speculation that hard-core Trump supporters aren't inclined to vote 'down-ticket'.

And, there are more damaging tapes to come - plus there are women consulting their lawyers about coming forward with allegations that he will find hard to rebut, given that damaging video.