Why is Sandi Toksvig so interested in the C of E?

[Sausagenbacon]

and why does Justin Welby bother with her?

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/26/sandi-toksvig-laments-untenable-church-of-england-stance-on-gay-marriage

She's not a christian, but feels entitled to have a chummy chat with the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is wet enough to indulge her.

I'm not particularly invested in the subject, and I am an Anglican, but I do think there is something frankly, pitiful about it.

I expect an article in next week's Guardian with a sad-faced Sandy talking about how the local Mosque/Synagogue won't marry her and her partner, and how 'unsafe' she now feels. Or not.

"So why would someone wake up one morning and think "today, even though it could lead to the death penalty, I think I'm going to be gay, and fall in love with that man"? What possible motivation could they have?"

@ShodanLives

I don't think people necessarily choose to be gay first before choosing to love. They are gay (or not) simply down to the object of their love's sex. And they could choose to love because they decided they greatly admired and valued the particular attributes of the person in question. They might do this even in the face of a death penalty if they felt that love was more important than a life without it.

@FurAndFeathers so any that you know of that prove beyond a doubt that love is involuntary? That sexuality is immutable and doesn't change and develop over time?

If someone is sexually attracted to and falls in love with someone of the same sex then they are, at that point, gau or bisexual. It's what it means.

Have you ever actually been in love? Or in any kind or relationship, or even been attracted to anyone?

"Well given that homophobia is a thing, yeah"

@ShodanLives it's sad that other people's prejudice and fears would impact whether you see a choice as good or bad.

I didn’t say that sexuality was immutable and didn’t change or develop

You are VERY keen to keep putting words in my mouth. It would be lovely if you could actually stick to what I’ve said rather than what you’ve decided I’ve said

www.nature.com/articles/457148a
please - tell me how you ‘choose’ whether or not to activate your genes, oxytocin, dopamine and serotonin?
Science would love to know.

In what way?

"Have you ever actually been in love? Or in any kind or relationship, or even been attracted to anyone?"

@ShodanLives

I've been married over 20 years to my DH and we have been together as a couple over 30 years. We love each other. We've been through a lot including life threatening illness. I had numerous relationships before him.

You’re very keen to keep imagining what people have said in order to confirm your own biases aren’t you?

that’s not what they said, so no need for the judgement

"In what way?"

@ShodanLives just seems a bit vulnerable...

@FurAndFeathers, well ShodanLives asked me to clarify how it was sad which would imply that people's prejudices and fears did have this kind of impact.

And your love to him is a choice is it? You could switch it off tomorrow and leave your relationship without a backward glance?

or ditch him for a woman?

or if he decides to leave you you could choose to stop any feelings of love or affection towards him instantly?

She did not say that homosexuality was a choice, and she did not attribute any moral value to it.

you’re the one labelling different sexualities as good and bad choices and then attributing that to another poster

Still have no idea what you mean. And again, I'm not talking about me.

@FurAndFeathers

I referred to this post of @ShodanLives, where she answered my question (in bold).

"Why is saying there is a possibility someone might choose to be gay homophobic? Is it so bad no one could possibly want to make that choice?

Well given that homophobia is a thing, yeah."

Other people's actions more like. If you live in a world where being gay or bisexual could mean anything from being picked on to beaten up to disowned to denied legal rights to imprisoned to killed whereas none of that applies if your straight, it's a no brained really. If you can chose your sexuality, which I still maintain you can't by the way.

If someone is sexually attracted to and falls in love with someone of the same sex then they are, at that point, gay or bisexual. It's what it means.

Especially since you still can't explain how the fuck this works.

Yes I know what you’re referencing and I can also see that you’re trying to set posters up to agree homosexuality is bad.

it’s sneaky and and unkind

@ShodanLives, I explained upthread why someone could make that choice and feel justified in it.

"Yes I know what you’re referencing and I can also see that you’re trying to set posters up to agree homosexuality is bad. "

@FurAndFeathers no I absolutely am not. If you think that, it is purely defensiveness on your part. And you accuse me of putting words in posters mouths!

And you think that accounts for the thousands of gay people persecuted under such regimes do you? They just thought “fuck it he/she seems nice, I’ll take a punt on being beaten to death and hope it all works out”

i haven’t accused you. I’ve literally shown you doing it.

and I haven’t put any words in your mouth. I’ve suggested your motivations.

you fo seem to struggle with accuracy.

Just ignoring my questions are you @echoesacrosstheether ?

"And you think that accounts for the thousands of gay people persecuted under such regimes do you? They just thought “fuck it he/she seems nice, I’ll take a punt on being beaten to death and hope it all works out”

@FurAndFeathers, and what do you think the thought process over choosing a religious belief that is persecuted is?

what do you think the thought process over choosing a religious belief that is persecuted is?

I’m afraid I struggle to answer questions that are phrased without any attention to syntax. I literally cannot decipher this

You really didn't.