church schools and their fascist admissions policy

[slinkstar]

i am currently choosing a secondary school for my son, i have not bought him up with any religion, he knows i am pagan though.
the only good schools in the area are c of e or catholic schools, it seems like unless you can go private or convert to a christian religion you cannot get a good education for your kids.
after a conversation with one of the schools this afternoon i understand that they do have places for non christian children but you have to be a "world faith" and proof from your place of worship is necessary. world faiths are jew, muslim, sikh, hindu. thats it!
so there are NO non-denom places available at any church schools.

can anyone else see the complete fascism in this ??
i don't exactly want my kids bought up christian but i want a good education for them. it seems like they will be shoved in the local non denom school which according to league tables means theres a good 70% chance they will fail their gcses!
has anyone had this issue before.

do you think they would have to consider my son for a world faith school place if i had some pagan priest write a reference for me.

yes go for it.

it's a mad situation isn't it

so, you don;t follow the religion, you think they are fascistic ( horrible word, with nazi overtones ) , but you want your son to be educated by them...

I think it's completely ridiculous, tbh. Why not try with the pagan priest thing?

I've got no problem with faith schools existing, but I just can't really understand the rationale of them being state-funded and exclusionary. You can't be both, really. Sorry you've been messed about by this.

But on the other hand...
Not very fair on the Christian (or other religious) children and parents who specifically want a Christian based education for their kids, to lose out on a place because your child takes one despite you being clear you don't want the Christian ethos (and by your paganism may possibly contribute to undermining it).
Plus, statistically, I'm sure you're aware really that going to the other school doesn't mean there's a 70% chance of failing their GCSEs. It means that 70% of the children are the sort that fail their GCSEs, not the same thing at all. A bright child will still do well.

But yes, what lulumama said, too, lol

As a pagan the very last place I would put my children is a faith school, of any denomination.

I also think your use of the word fascist is extreme and unnecessary.

I have a lot of sympathy with people who are religious wanting their children to go to religion based schools. I do however have a huge problem with any state funded school applying selection on the basis of faith.

I wouldn't have a problem as an atheist with my son going to a school with a Christian ethos - I don't have a problem with the message of Christianity or indeed many of the world religions, I just don't beleive in them. Is that over simplistic?

You are all barking mad - she doesn't want her child to be educated in a church school, but she does want her child to be educated in a good school. By discriminating on grounds of faith she has less choice than those who believe in fairy tales

This morning I went to the local junior school round the corner, C of E but a brilliant school. I don't want my child to go to a faith school but I do want him to go to the school round the corner with all his mates and I do want him to have a good education.

Agree with lulumama, sorry, but if you have no interest in religion why are yoou wanting to use their school? If a particular religious school is doing well, then good on them, and if you have no time for religion,, then don't just expect the facilities / education / skills / placements / good results to be handed to you because you want them. Sorry, but i have been looki ng into school places and it is annoying when, as a cathloic who wants children to have catholic schooling places are being requested by non catholics who want the benefit of that schools performance but have not interest in it's ethos and you know will not contribute to the schools spiritual side.

religious schools are not fascist, that's unfair.

But they are divisive and discriminatory and I think they should be abolished.

but anyway.

slinkstar: sending your son to the normal local school doesn't mean he has a "70% chance of failing". It just means that he'll be with lots of pupils who have a high chance of failing - often because their parents don't give a monkey's about their kids' education. You obviously do give a monkey's, so it probably won't actually be all that bad for him you know.

slinkstar, I completely agree. Any faith system is fine apart from mine (agnostic).

I don't want my daughter to go to a church school per se but all the schools in my area are church schools.

Also, the fact is that church schools tend to do better because they have this subtle form of selection. So people who have beliefs that are not recognised organised religions get relegated to a second class education.

It really @*&^% me off. I do not agree that the state should pay for religious institutions to provide education but in my area I get no choice. And since my daughter won't get in anyway, we will be shipped miles away.

I am seriously considering going to church in order to get her into our perfectly ordinary local school.

Disgraceful.

I'm sorry I dont follow your reasoning. You dont follow any of the school religions but want your dc to be educated by them because theyre better schools? How rude is that? Why should your child be given preference over the c of e or catholic children whose parents will respect the ethos and mission statement of that school.
Think your attitude stinks tbh!

though I do think calling them facist a bit extreme.

agree with senorapostrophe

also, he has a 30 % chance of doing well !

Yes, Walbert - but what if the best school in the area discriminated against you because you were a catholic and said that catholics weren't allowed.

There are laws against such discrimination - why should faith schools be able to do the same?

Hermione - the issue is that whilst the LEA fund enough secondary schools to cater for the children in their borough (if you are lucky!), by allowing a proportion to have admission criteria which rely on faith many children are not offered any choice, or as much choice as religious families.

It may be that Slinksters local school is religiously selective and that her DS has to travel much further away as a result.

So all state education is equal but some parents have more of a choice of access to it than others.

Why are we all barking mad Kaz?

OK not read thread but in response to the OP..

I am not religious, dd is not christened - dd goes to CofE school. Don't see the problem??

TBH I've never heard of a school not having any places for those outside the practised religion. My dd is 5 so maybe this will change, I don't know. It' just strikes me as odd.. if you don't mind your child going to a school and participating in whatever it is they do - prayer/assembly whatever then what's their issue?

I'm starting to wonder if I've misunderstood but will hit post anyway - ho hum

I don't follow the logic that because faith schools have this faith-selection thing going on, that's why they are better academically.

I'm always being told what a dunderhead I am for having a faith. My kids aren't going to be cleverer just because they're from a Christian home.

???

And regarding equality of opportunity, there was an article in the Observer at the w/e about a man trying to found the first truly secular state school - and he was told that in no way would he get government permision to circumvent the National Curriculum requirement to have an act of Chritian worship in the school, nor to change the emphasis of the RE curriculum to be one of 'world beliefs' which encompassed learning about a range of religions and also philosophical theories.

That stinks. IMO.

The choice is available to you: but if by personal preference you don'tsubscribe to a religion then you as a parent are taking that choice from your family! If the best school in our area was, for example, buddist or muslim or jewish and i really wanted my child to go there but wasn't of the faith then you have to make a decision: do you want to be received into that faith and hence fit the criteria of the school or decline that the faith isn't for you and accept that the schooling etc will also not be available!! Therre are other schools out there, it's not like a child is being completely denied and education!

Are they better schools because they are faith schools?

Or are they better schools because they select by the back door?

Also there are so many of them and on the increase some of them are bound to be good. In fact some of them aren't good at all.

This holier than thou attitude that because they are faith schools they are good and why should non believers benefit I find quite repulsive to be honest

Have to go and cook dinner and should probably shut up anyway as this subject gets my goat anyway.

given that a 2002 survey found that 2-10% of the population attended a Christian church at Christmas (and presumably much lower during the year) I absolutely object to the number of christian faith-based schools funded by the Government who are allowed to select on the basis of religion.