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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

church schools and their fascist admissions policy

194 replies

slinkstar · 26/09/2007 16:39

i am currently choosing a secondary school for my son, i have not bought him up with any religion, he knows i am pagan though.
the only good schools in the area are c of e or catholic schools, it seems like unless you can go private or convert to a christian religion you cannot get a good education for your kids.
after a conversation with one of the schools this afternoon i understand that they do have places for non christian children but you have to be a "world faith" and proof from your place of worship is necessary. world faiths are jew, muslim, sikh, hindu. thats it!
so there are NO non-denom places available at any church schools.

can anyone else see the complete fascism in this ??
i don't exactly want my kids bought up christian but i want a good education for them. it seems like they will be shoved in the local non denom school which according to league tables means theres a good 70% chance they will fail their gcses!
has anyone had this issue before.

do you think they would have to consider my son for a world faith school place if i had some pagan priest write a reference for me.

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 27/09/2007 15:10

I think faith schools should be abolished.

Donk · 27/09/2007 15:10

Surely the basic problem is that we live in a country with and 'established' (i.e. State) church/religion.
As such why should the state not fund church schools?
If we think this is wrong why not campaign for disestablishment?
A long term way of looking at it I grant you - but at least consistent!

margoandjerry · 27/09/2007 15:14

I live in central London in the middle of Westminster where they really, really don't care about schooling unless it's faith schools. Nearest non faith school is about a mile away but in another borough and I don't think you can get into another borough's schools. My five nearest schools in my borough are faith schools.

Nearest one in my borough is probably somewhere in Lisson Grove or Edgware Road - both of which are about a half hour walk and actually not in my area. I know it doesn't sound far but bearing in mind you can't drive, and these are not our areas, she would effectively be going to school in another town (she's one btw so all academic atm).

UnquietDad · 27/09/2007 15:14

What would, in fact, be the problem with not having faith schools? What would people actually lose? Really? Set against what they would gain?

margoandjerry · 27/09/2007 15:15

half hour walk for me, more like 45 mins for her, I should imagine.

hunkermunker · 27/09/2007 15:15

at school choice being "academic" MAJ

ruty · 27/09/2007 15:16

Our local primary school is Cof E. Hardly any of the parents who send their children there go to church. It is based on catchment area. and you have to be rather wealthy to afford to live in the catchment area [we are just outside it] so taking away the Faith factor, which seems a red herring in our school's case, why is ok for only rich people to get into certain State schools, as they are the only one who can afford to buy in the blardy catchment area?

ruty · 27/09/2007 15:16

Our local primary school is Cof E. Hardly any of the parents who send their children there go to church. It is based on catchment area. and you have to be rather wealthy to afford to live in the catchment area [we are just outside it] so taking away the Faith factor, which seems a red herring in our school's case, why is ok for only rich people to get into certain State schools, as they are the only one who can afford to buy in the blardy catchment area?

margoandjerry · 27/09/2007 15:17

Donk, I'm all for disestablishment, starting with the only area that actually affects most of us or costs us any money - namely schools!

The only other area I can think of that costs us anything is paying for Archbishops etc to have seats in the Lords and although I'd rather not have that either, I am much more bothered about schools.

Donk · 27/09/2007 15:22

Its not just the House of Lords - in schools its why RE is compulsory (and for a long time was the ONLY compulsory part of the curriculum), its why we have to have daily assemblies that are mainly religious in nature/daily act of worship.
Its why Queenie is Head of the CofE (or rather that is why we have an Established church) - and we have prayers in parliament.
Presumably its why Radio 4 and 3 had /have so much (if you are non-CofE) in the way of church services and religious content.
I've run out of time!

UnquietDad · 27/09/2007 15:44

To look at it another way - if parents' faith (real or putative) was simply not an issue in schools, and had nothing to do with selection criteria, and faith was irrelevant to the school a child went to... in what way would this be unfair? Why would it need changing back?

margoandjerry · 27/09/2007 16:12

RE would be compulsory even if church and state were disconnected because it would probably still be deemed important to understand religion generally rather than specifically. Not in my world but in the minds of a lot of people.

Also, yes, we might lose Songs of Praise but these aren't really things that cost me anything as a taxpayer. Only thing of any consequence is education.

EmsMum · 27/09/2007 16:52

I did so want MargoAndJerry to live in Surbiton.

I'm sorry, now I'm giggling at the thought of someone looking like Margo from the Good Life leading a disestablishment campaign.
Wow, that would be fabulous!

margoandjerry · 27/09/2007 22:06

I did grow up very close to Surbiton...my sister went to school there and my daughter's middle name is Margot. The line between me and my MN name is very, very fine.

Oh, and I am constantly to be found wearing a floaty house coat and turban

God I love Penelope Keith

donnie · 28/09/2007 20:58

oh FGS just listen to yourself Emsmum - 'segregation', 'indoctrination'. How hysterical are you? Unless you are sending your comments hot from Rangoon then I suggest you stop being so ridiculously OTT. If you don't like faith schools then don't bloody send them there. Duh.

UnquietDad · 28/09/2007 21:02

Oh, that it were that simple.

Elasticwoman · 29/09/2007 11:51

In the States, state schools have to be secular by law. It can make for difficulties eg no school Christmas Carol Service. In Orwell's 1984 there is a bit about how difficult it is to take religion out of our culture without denying our whole cultural and linguistic tradition.

But this thread shows that our own law and custom about faith and secular schools is contradictory and not altogether fair.

RustyBear · 29/09/2007 12:57

"its why we have to have daily assemblies that are mainly religious in nature/daily act of worship."

I wonder how many non-faith schools actually do have daily assemblies that are 'mainly religious in nature'.

The one I work at seems to get over this requirement by singing a hymn every so often...

MadamePlatypus · 01/10/2007 14:18

I am in a similar situation to margo and jerry. Its not a situation of good school/bad school. Its a case of church school or no school. If you don't go to church, your choice of primary schools is cut by 50%, and in some areas, where the concentration of church schools is particularly high, you are left with no local secular schools.

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