How to deal with DS5 hitting dd9?

[TrollRoad]

When DS5 is upset he gets violent and often his sister9 bears the brunt of it. He hits, kicks, bites, scratches or throws things. She usually screams or cries but she won't hit back as she doesn't want him to get hurt.

We remove him immediately and then tend to DD to check if she's ok. He's usually quite upset and scared himself after hitting anyone so I do hug him and tell him I love him and that we are there for him. He obviously feels bad but he refuses to apologise or even ask DD if she's ok. We have explained to him time and time again that hitting or any other form of violence is not ok and that we won't accept it. He gets an automatic TV ban for violence but I doubt that in that moment when he's in a rage he is actually capable of stopping himself from being violent.

DD always forgives him and often makes the first move to make up again but I am so scared that eventually this will affect their relationship or that he will grow up to be a violent person.

When he's not upset he is of course lovely and then I think he will eventually grow out of it but what if he doesn't? Besides till that happens DD has a right to be safe at all times.

They usually get on well and in spite the age gap still play nicely together (though DS has lashed out before as well. Actually every time he gets upset) but the holidays have just forced them to spend too much time with each other. Also, DH and me have no leave left so are working full time (grand parents are at home with the kids or they go to holiday clubs), which probably doesn't help.

Any advice? Does anyone have experience of this? What helped? Equally important, what didn't help?

Thank you..I'm just looking up play therapists in our town. do you know how to find a good one? Is there any particular qualification I should be looking for?

Yes, the cuddles are definitely not meant as a reward. Is there a proper way to do co emotional regulation cuddles rather than rewarding cuddles?

You need to stop coddling him and sort it out now because in a few years he will be stronger than his sister. If you keep coddling him he will grow up to be a really unpleasant and possibly criminally unpleasant man.

Does he do this with boys his own age at school? Sounds like you need to get him help for his anger but first and foremost you need to be firm. Physically grab him and restrain him and send him to his room. Don’t let him loiter in the door crying.

Had never heard the word regulation when mine were toddlers. If either of them hit or bit anyone else (which they very occasionally did around the age of 2 ) I shouted and immediately put them in the cold porch and shut the door away from any fun. That stopped the behaviour dead in its tracks funnily enough. Old school.

It’s hard to describe because it’s a boundary that starts from when they’re 18 months or so and the strategies you use with a child that age is very different to a 5 year old.

If my older one hit me now there would probably first be silence and shock at how terrible the thing was that he had done. Then a very firm no, we never hit. And then I would walk away or take them upstairs depending on the situation and what it was they wanted/had got aggy about. It would be referred back to afterwards and he would be reminded how wrong it was. It is never okay to hit. When his dad comes home it would be brought up again and further reinforced by him that hitting is never acceptable.

When they were younger if I was carrying them or they were on my lap and got hit I would put them down there and then and walk away. They don’t get my attention and the certainty don’t get what they want if they hit.

With hitting each other though I posted higher up the thread both how the main thing is getting them to use to their words. They need to be able to use their words to express what they do or don’t want when they’re playing together. Being able to do this and communicate well avoids the frustration that causes the hitting.

Bloody hell I think the OP is getting a hard time here. She clearly recognises her current approach isn’t working so has asked for advice.

You're way overthinking this - he's 5, he's not going to think he's alone or bad or beyond redemption! You are giving him mixed messages by telling him off and then hugging him and telling him you love him and are there for him 🤦‍♀️

You need to be much firmer - as soon as he hits or kicks you just say 'No hurting your sister' and remove him to his room. Leave him there until he's ready to apologise. No hugs, no explanations about how to manage his anger - at 5 he's old enough to know it's not ok to hit other people.

Save the hugs and praise for when he's being good. When he apologises to his sister, you can just say 'Well done for apologising, don't do it again'.

He isn’t scared. He just doesn’t want to. It’s not that complex.
Unless there is some kind of massive trauma you haven’t disclosed.
A child is who lives in a secure family home and is loved doesn’t have the challenges or fears you mention.
No hitting - it’s unacceptable. A sincere apology must be provided and he can scream and cry all he wants until it’s provided. And as DD is so forgiving you decide if it’s good enough. He could also make some form of apology that takes his time - a picture, a short letter to say sorry.

One other thought OP. You are unintentionally conditioning your daughter to being hit and accepting it so long as she gets a ‘sorry’
Is that really the message you want her to get through childhood? That a male can hit her so long as he apologises later?

This has touched a nerve, as this was how my brother used to behave towards me.

You are being far too soft. He is not ‘scared’ in any real sense and removing TV is a feeble consequence. I imagine he refuses to apologise because he doesn’t feel he’s done anything wrong - he feels entitled to thump his sister if he’s tired or overwrought - and you need to do much more to tackle this.

I agree BUT would say that children differ and so the consequences here may be less effective on some kids. For example my almost 6 year old had a period like this hitting her older sister which she thankfully seems to be growing out of finally, but we dealt with it similarly. However despite having some very very seriously tellings off in her life (she’s a livewire and if there’s an option that involves danger she seems to gravitate toward it) she has maybe only cried from being reprimanded severely twice in her life. It just doesn’t affect her like it does my other child - and therefore just doesn’t work asl well.

so huge sympathy the OP, it’s a tough age gap, we’ve found it hard too

Absolutely not and that's another reason why we need to get DS to stop hitting. I don't want DD to learn that it's ok for someone to hit you as long as they make amends later no matter what the amends are. Or that it's ok for someone to hurt her just because they are family or someone who loves and adores her We also haven't told her ever that she needs to accept ds' apology or forgive him or anything. I want her to have zero tolerance for violence against her. I have told her that as well but then obviously I can't kick out ds. And obviously I don't want to. He's 5. Surely he can still learn?

So that's why I'm here..how do we get him to stop hitting?

OP do you leave your children alone in a room together?

I’m a mum of two now 30+ year old men and now dealing with grandsons. Maybe I’m out of touch but this is what worked here
Assuming there are no SEN considerations, I think it really is as simple as withdrawing from the cuddles and explanation tactics which seem to have confused him and deliver a very clear punishment (naughty step or similar would he my personal choice) in the moment and he can only come off it once he’s apologised. No affection until after that - I truly believe this is your problem in solving this. It’s way too mixed a message

PLUS a clear longer term consequence of a loss of tv time
Same response. Every single time.

Yes, does he lose his temper with other oyster, ones that will punch him in the eye or throw him to the ground? Or just his forgiving sister.

When my dd was four, she pushed her friend over. I told her off, made her apologise and so on. Two days later she did it again. I took away every cuddly toy she owned, because I knew she valued them. Including the one she couldn’t sleep without. Every single one for a week. I didn’t care she was sad. Her friend was sad she was pushed over.

And I’m going to guess she never did that again!

But telling him that is too abstract at this age. And I'm sorry but I don't think putting him in his room will teach him much either. He needs to see that his sister is getting all the attention because he has hurt her, while he is being ignored. If he is in his room, he will just find something that interests him. Pick him up, put him on a chair, without making eye contact and very sternly tell him to "stay there!". Don't utter a word to him, unless he leaves the chair, until you have made a big fuss of DD, including giving her something concrete to make her feel better. A sticker for not hitting him back would be a good choice. If he does leave the chair "Sit down!" Is all that needs to be said.
After a suitable length of time, tell him he can get off the chair when he has said "Sorry" to his sister. Keep him on the chair until he does say it. It doesn't matter how grudging the apology is, he has to say it.

Don't keep asking him for the apology, just tell him what needs to happen and then ignore him until.it does. It might take ages the 1st time but when he realises that you mean it the time will get shorter. When everything has calmed down talk to him about not hitting, rehearse with him what he can do if he feels angry/frustrated. Can you act it out with him with soft toys or puppets?

I have a younger brother, similar age gap. Used to play fight all the time but the one time he pulled my hair, my mum went NUCLEAR.

No removing him from the room whilst she 'ignored him and made a fuss of me' etc.. Just a massive telling off in the room we were both in. Both of us can still remember it! Brother was very remorseful immediately; knew he had done wrong. He was about 3 at the time.

I have young adult children, both boys, and they never hurt one another during play fights; they knew not to.

I would be very concerned if my child was this violent and I hope you get some useful help.

Well wait until he goes to school and he meets children who are not quite as nice as your daughter.

N absolutely not. But honestly he continues to do it because of your lack of understanding that parenting is needed in that moment not cuddling and consoling.

Kids need to feel uncomfortable emotions and how to deal with them. You are setting him up for a world of problems when he gets older if he doesn’t understand that.

Of course you always love your children and that isn’t conditional but being unconditional as a parent means having them understand where they are wrong and the consequences (lack of cuddles) when that happens.

You are far too worried about him being scare and upset and not enough about your poor poor daughter who will only see she is being abused and you are cuddling her aggressor .

You by default are teaching your daughter that her being hit is okay.

No, she didn’t and the two of them are friends to this day and they are nineteen. I just wasn’t having her pushing her friend like that. My older dd did similar things when she was eighteen months/two, that sort of age. But this was different from that.

When mine were little I was strict on the no hitting, the offender would be taken immediately to the naughty step ( thats how long ago that was) told firmly we do not hit then left a minute for each year so in your ds case 5 mins while you fuss over the one that was hit and reassure them it's not their fault that their sibling is being told off. Then after 5 mins you go to the kid on the stair and you say I love you but we mustnt hit. Then I would cuddle them and send them off to be nice to their sibling. I never made a big thing about apologising as they don't understand or don't mean it, Just go give so and so a hug and then it's done never to be mentioned again.

YOU ARE TEACHING HIM TO BE VIOLENT!!!

But you don't see that you're behavior is teaching him to be more violent 🤦🏽‍♀️

He attacks his sister he gets attention and cuddles from you. you're teaching him to be violent that he gets rewarded with attention and cuddles when he is violent

Do you not see that?????

And you're teaching your daughter the opposite message. if someone beats on her and is violent she doesn't have a right to fight back 🤦🏽‍♀️

If somebody hits your daughter a friend or stranger do you think she is supposed to sit there and be thoughtful and listen to their feelings to calm them down? To apologize to them and make the first move to make things right? Of course not she needs to pop them back and then they will stop 🤦🏽‍♀️

It is called self defense
You are setting your daughter up for a world of hurt from violent boys/men in this society with your passive we don't hurt anybody approach

Your post just placating and dismissing all this is infuriating and it's infuriating that you just don't even see it when it's blatantly obvious to anyone who is reading through your posts

The play therapist we used had a BA in Childhood Studies, therapeutic play practitioner training with PTUK and a Diploma in Child Psychology and mindfulness for children. I don't know if there are specific qualifications to look for but I think you'll know by talking to them whether they are right for your DS.

Co-regulation cuddles aren't different from rewarding cuddles. You just might do/say different sorts of things like modelling regulation strategies and narrating e.g. 'you felt angry that you didn't win the game.' https://childmind.org/article/what-is-co-regulation/ this might help you to understand co-regulation better.

If your DS doesn't improve with his ability to stop himself lashing out after support, you might consider whether he could be neurodivergent. Does he show any other signs of neurodivergence that you're aware of? Some kids are fine in school like your DS is because they hold it all in there, which causes the 'pop bottle effect' where it all comes out at home in their safe space. This may not be the case for him but it's a possibility.

Have you even read all my posts or are you replying to an imaginary post that you've written yourself?

I'm taking on board what everyone has said but you are obviously just looking for an opportunity to lash out. A bit like my little boy. Go piss on someone else.

I think the poster has a point. A little hyperbole maybe but essentially correct