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Original poster

Terrifyingly anti-woman law passed in Oklahoma

368 replies

SethStarkaddersMum · 28/04/2010 11:45

I am absolutely at this.

A law has been passed in Oklahoma to force women who want abortion to undergo vaginal ultrasound and listen to a detailed description of the fetus and view the ultrasound image before terminating a pregnancy.
Even if they are rape or incest victims.

words absolutely fail me.

OP posts:
justallovertheplace · 28/04/2010 12:49

There you have it. You've said it yourself. This law humiliates women. You're showing yourself to be the worst kind of misogynist. A female one

GetOrfMoiLand · 28/04/2010 12:51

"hence the humiliation involved in forcing women to see the face of their baby before aborting it... "

You can't see the face. You can see fark all. In early pregnancy the foetus doesn't even have a face. This is a daft statement.

Plus, do you think women who have decided to have an abortion are going to look at the scan picture and go 'oh bloody hell it's a baby, no, I have changed my mind, I will keep it'. It will do nothing. At that point the woman has made up her mind to abort. A blurred image of a foetus (which looks bugger all like a baby at that point) will not change someone's decision, imo.

toccatanfudge · 28/04/2010 12:52

I am a pro-life Christian, that doesn't give me the right to use terms such that are likely to cause offence or upset to those that have had an abortion, killing babies, murder, accusing them of using it as contraception etc etc.

And fwiw - I never called anyone on this thread a nutter.......so please desist from accusing me of firing personal insults at people on here as I didn't - I called the "stereotype" pro-lifers nutters.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 28/04/2010 12:53

Expat:

"'If it's just your opinion, we have no quarrel. But as soon as 'just' your opinion is used to threaten my bodily autonomy, we'll take it outside, okay?'

Again, this doesn't threaten you at all. "

Judging by Leonie's spelling ("mom" "fetus") she's American, and I'm in Australia but we're seeing some of these awful ideas creeping in, so actually it does.

Toccata, you're pro-choice. Being pro-choice means exactly that. Those of us on that side aren't always sanguine about abortion ourselves (I am, but many aren't), we just believe that it's not the government's role to interfere with our bodily autonomy. "Pro-life" is a very clever piece of propaganda.

I'm very glad that Leonie recognises this bill as aimed as humiliating women who want to assert the right to choose whether their bodies are used as incubators. Surprised, but glad.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 28/04/2010 12:55

GetOrf, thanks for being brave. I've had an elective non-rape non-incest abortion too. Incidentally, viability starts at 23 weeks but a baby born that prematurely would have a hugely, hugely high risk of mental or physical disability.

toccatanfudge · 28/04/2010 12:55

oh I don't know maybe I am pro-choice

my personal feelings on the issue are very very strong, and fall in line with the media shown "pro-lifers"........but then it's not my place to put those opinions across to anyone else or judge anyone on their choices.

I'm confused............going to go and put the kettle on - friend has just texted to say she's on her way.

Will leave you lot too it and go off and work out if I'm pro-choice or pro-life

winnybella · 28/04/2010 12:56

I had a termination 6 weeks ago and at my ultrasound scan thedoctor just said that it's too early for a heartbeat to be seen, she could see the yolk sac and Fetal pole and that's it. If I had the scan later on, I am 100% sure she would say pretty much the same thing ie pregnancy is in the womb etc.

She would not start to talk about cute little legs,nose etc.

So in my case the scan was to ascertain the dates and that it wasn't ectopic.I didn't feel violated or patronised, but I would have if she had try to make me feel guilty.

Leonie, an embryo is not a baby, it is a potential beginning to a new life, but I think a person who will have to carry the pg to term, who will have to support the child financially and emotionally for years has a right to choose to not continue.

winnybella · 28/04/2010 12:56

*tried to make me feel guilty

Original poster
SethStarkaddersMum · 28/04/2010 12:56

you can easily see a face by 12 weeks though.
Not sure exactly how early the abortions we're talking about here will be.

OP posts:
cory · 28/04/2010 13:01

paster from my reply to another thread:

the problem with having all unwanted children born and then adopted is that it is going to be difficult to find that many good adoptive parents. Especially as it will be impossible to get round the fact that a lot of these children will have difficult behaviour simply due to the fact that they know they have been rejected by their birth parents.

Countries with laxer adoption controls than ours also have far more adopted children murdered or injured by their adopted parents, or returned into foster care, often to be re-adopted and then re-rejected.

And stories from the days when unwanted babies were routinely born and adopted suggest that many of them did indeed end up in highly unsuitable families.

ArthurPewty · 28/04/2010 13:02

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slug · 28/04/2010 13:04

Women deserve humiliation for getting pregnant???

justallovertheplace · 28/04/2010 13:05

'deserve a little humiliation'?!
What a vile, vile thing to say

OtterInaSkoda · 28/04/2010 13:07

An embryo at 5 weeks gestation is no more a baby than a toddler of 18 months is a teenager. In fact it is less so. IMO.

I digress.

I agree with everything GetOrf and Humphrey have said. This is outrageous.

ArthurPewty · 28/04/2010 13:07

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ArthurPewty · 28/04/2010 13:09

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justallovertheplace · 28/04/2010 13:09

No wonder you have issues then, with parents like that

winnybella · 28/04/2010 13:10

Leonie, most women don't need shaming them into continuing with pregnancy.Their decision is made and it's no one's business to undermine the women's ability to control her fertility as she sees it fit.

OtterInaSkoda · 28/04/2010 13:10

"if they see the baby's face"???????????

Give me strength

slug · 28/04/2010 13:12

What about the men?

What about the condom manufacturers who manufactured faulty condoms?

What about the shop that sold the faulty condoms?

What about (if you choose to bring God into it) God who provided women with hormones that were incompatable with the pill?

What about the restaurant that sold the food that was contaminated with bacteria that gave the woman a tummy bug which meant her body couldn't absorb the pill that day?

What about the people who voted in the lawmakers that made the made that disgraceful law?

winnybella · 28/04/2010 13:13

Baby's face? You do realise that in early pg embryo doesn't have a face? FGS.

ArthurPewty · 28/04/2010 13:14

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slug · 28/04/2010 13:16

Any more rude than implying that women deserve to be humiliated for being sexually active?

OtterInaSkoda · 28/04/2010 13:16

Of course if we're talking about pregnancies being terminated a 6 weeks, or 8 weeks - it could backfire.

There is bugger all to see after all.

ArthurPewty · 28/04/2010 13:16

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