Terrifyingly anti-woman law passed in Oklahoma

[SethStarkaddersMum]

I am absolutely at this.

A law has been passed in Oklahoma to force women who want abortion to undergo vaginal ultrasound and listen to a detailed description of the fetus and view the ultrasound image before terminating a pregnancy.
Even if they are rape or incest victims.

words absolutely fail me.

Seriously, your question doesn't even make sense

Getorf - I was surprised at your statement that it's not painful or invasive but 'just like having a smear' because IME smears can be painful.

also the description you had ('that's where it is') etc was probably quite different from the detailed description they are planning, which is surely going to be 'that's its little head' etc.

am glad you had this procedure without it being overly traumatic.

however I think when someone is forced to have it the trauma is likely to be greater because you would feel more invaded and also be tenser and hence it's more likely to hurt (as with a smear).

and Getorf, thank you for being brave/open enough to put your experiences on here.
If anyone calls you a murderer I will deck them.

I think what I was trying to say is similar to what Getoff has put more eloquently - that the vaginal scan element of this is not necessarily the worst part of the legislation, or particularly unusual or extreme.

FWIW I have had several vaginal scans and found them all much less painful and invasive than a smear test - basically they insert a probe, which is lubricated, to enable them to scan clearly - no speculum or scraping like a smear or anything.

After reading one persons opinions on this thread I'm almost a little afraid to voice mine - as I would class myself pro-life imo life begins at conception.

BUT that does not give me the right to judge anyone else on their CHOICE which they are free to make which will have absolutely NO IMPACT on me whatsoever.

What I believe, and how I feel bears no relationship to other women's choices and beliefs on the matter.

And I would never seek to force my opinion other people trying to guilt trip them talking of "killing babies" or "life that might have been" (it might have been a shite life.......) or any of the other crap that "pro-lifers" (actually I class them as nutters......) come out with.

I am truly horrified and disgusted by this.

I would like to make the point that a medically necessary procedure before an abortion is different from a legally enforced procedure aimed at distressing the victim. Even is they are actually the same thing.

LeonieDelt - Why is another womans choice any of your business? It isn't, take a leaf out of toccatanfudge's book.

lol at 'deck them'.

Thanks Seth. To be honest I don't know if they would be able to point out the head etc, the scans are no more detailed or clearer than normal tummy scans.

You are right though in that I was completely willing to have the scan, if you weren't, and were forced to have it done, it would feel utterly different.

I perhaps was lucky because the scan certainly wasn't painful, and luckily enough smears aren't for me either.

I think the very fact that they are being aborted tells me that they are not wanted. And lets not get into the nuances of the word 'wanted'. The very fact that an abortion takes place tells me that, for whatever reason a woman has decided she is either unable or unwilling to continue with that pregnancy. That should be enough to gain her access to quick, safe, as undistressing as possible termination.

Yes, you can (imo) justify abortion on whether or not they are wanted. The abortion law is important as it trusts women to have the ability and intelligence to judge whether having the baby would be detrimental to her, or the babies life. Women are women in themselves and are legally allowed to make their own decisions about their own body and what goes on with it. They are not glorified incubators, whit the life of the unborn foetus taking precedence over her wants and wishes. In my view, life doesn't begin at conception, rather begins when the baby's life is viable and can live independently outside the mother (say around 18-20 weeks). Thus I don't personally approve of late abortion out of choice as oppised to late diagnosed abnormality.

But that is my opinion.

what you think that someone who wanted a baby would terminate the pregnancy?

Yes I suppose in some awful distressing cases (for the parents) a scan picks up incompatibility with life and they may make the gut wrenching decision to terminate......but in general I would be very suprised to hear of a situation where a wanted baby was aborted

You can be pro-life and not be a nutter - it's when you start trying to stop women from having choices over their own bodies that you start being a nutter. Who do you think you are?

You clearly have a foot fetish Leonie

Leonie, how would you feel about forcing people to donate kidneys or bone marrow in order to save lives?

I ask because there is no situation other than pregnancy where a person can be forced to undergo medical treatment on behalf of another person.

Why is pregnancy different?

and you really think the number of people using termination as a conception is high enough to justify laws like this??

I have no facts or figures, but I'd hazard a good guess that those using termination as "purely" contraception are but a tiny tiny minority of those who go through it.

Yeah, who do you think you are to be saying that your decision is the right one and thus women should not be allowed to have abortions because you are right - wtf makes you think that your opinion should govern other peoples lives? You'd have to have a bizarrely inflated opinion of yourself.

I don't think Leonie is a nutter - she has just got very strong beliefs about the right of the unborn child. They are absolutely the opposite to mine, however she has the right to think what she does. LOTS of people agree with her.

I agree that religion plays a large part in the legislation for abortion. However, what I find difficult to understand is how america (a secular state) has rules like this, where France, which is equally religious in nature and also secular, allows abortion on demand.

Thankfully abortion does not seem as emotive a subject in the Uk as it seems to be in America. Keep my fingers crossed that it will remain that way. I would personally fight to ensure that it does.