NIck Griffin tells BBC that boats carrying immigrants should be sunk

[spokette]

I think his victory in the EU elections makes him think that he can reveal more of his true true heinous side.

How long before he starts extolling the virtue of gas chambers?

i don't suppose we get a lot of moroccans, for that matter pw.

but moroccans have such nice lanterns

Oh, yes, of course, FAQ - I was mostly thinking of purported variations in those who make it to developing countries, but your point is a really good one, and completely missed in much of the immigration debate here.

Look at the reasons that have been given for voting BNP on this thread (which also tend to be the reasons given, in public at least, by people who have actually voted BNP). They're based on a comprehensive lack of information - AKA ignorance.

so if the empire hadn't gone raping and pillaging across the known globe then we wouldn't be in this mess? we are utter fuckers, non?

Well yes, quite, re. Moroccans - similarly I'd imagine France gets a lot more Algerian migrants than we do. So Habb is right that there's an imperial/colonial connection.

"does not mean that socialism eqates to totalitarianism; that is indeed lazy thinking."

I never said it did. Its rather a lazy assertion to say so. I was rather contrasting two contradictory statements from you, which were redolent of that double standard.

This is the thing, not all BNP voters will be out and out facists. A significant will be floating voters. But ghettoising them and refusing to listen to them, to take their questions and fears serioulsy, will only marginalise people who want to plough the middle ground. If people on the left won't engage with them - we hand the power to the far right. That's the left's failing.

People's fears may very well be vague, but that doesn't make them maniacs. There is far too much will to think the worst of people on here.

PW, I wouldn't come to MN to find definitive anwers to anything. It's not that kind of resourse.

which is a shame in a way as we could do with lovelier lamps.

who has suggested that all bnp voters are out and out fascists? i missed that.

"I've never seen anything to suggest that BNP voters are anything but ignorant."

Isn't that a rather dangerous assumption?

indeed aitch we could

fantastic post MT. fantastic. exactly what i have been trying to get at.

"so if the empire hadn't gone raping and pillaging across the known globe then we wouldn't be in this mess?"

I dunno what you mean? Is it that we responnsible for Islamism or any other ideolgy that is committed to destroying liberal democracy?

is islam opposed to a liberal democracy?

Oh, the left (the proper left, not NuLab) aren't failing at anything. We make well informed and sensible pro-immigration arguments, and listen with wearly politeness while DP and her ilk trot out the same tired old nonsense while failing to engage with any of the facts.

The right's to blame here, not the left.

"who has suggested that all bnp voters are out and out fascists? i missed that."

Okay, so it's not the far right (i.e.facist) element of the BNP that you object to? Just the general conservatism. Is that it?

Really need some clarification here. Are those of you objectinfg to the BNP becasue they on the right, but not the far right?

Who said that Custy?

i don't know what your question means, tbh. are you missing words?

what i meant was that if there is a post-colonial link then thanks to us having the biggest empire we now find ourselves in a mess. although of course i don't think we're in a terrible mess thanks to immigration so it was really just a joke.

someoen down the thread talked about a moral obligation to look after our empire and commonwealth cousins now, which is also a though, having fucked their countries for them in the past.

anyway, this thread has gone six different ways now. i personally think that this anti immigration thing that the bnp is seducing voters with taps into their existing racism. and i'm not sure what can be done about that, other than engage with them on a 'please could you stop being racist?' level.

I object to the BNP because they are violent, racist, woman-hating thugs. I don't spend much time trying to work out exactly where to place them in the glorious pantheon of raddled, bilious lunatics.

What is the 'proper' left. Is nothing but the 'proper' left valid for people left of centre? Who decides what is the 'proper' left?

mt that's a huge distortion, i'm cringing for you. you said, as if it was shock breaking news, that all bnp voters were not out and out fascists. i don't think that was ever in dispute tbh. personally i think a lot of them were hardened labour voters (although many had never voted in their lives and we must look at that) with no jobs and few opportunities and easily swayed by pretty innate racism towards a common enemy.

I AM THE LEFT

And doesn't democracy need opposition? What does it mean to say the 'right' is to blame? Who are the 'right'. The lib dems? The tories? The facists? Are they all one and the same?

where is dp and will she ever answer my question about whether or not the bnp is appealing to people to vent about their feelings towards previous immigrant communities under the guise of it being about new ones.

yes democracy needs opposition - but come on - the BNP is hardly a democratic opposition party is it!