Archie Battersbee - Thread 4

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Archie Battersbee - Thread 3 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/inthee_news/4601962-archie-battersbee-thread-3

The (hospice) request hasn't been denied by the courts, so that may well be the next application

Personally I'd say that's highly likely, and when it's refused that too will be taken to the Supreme Court, the UN and the ECHR

I know it would be very hard to do, but maybe the time has come for the courts to say there can be no more delays, and therefore that no application for that purpose will be considered for anything short of a miraculous recovery

I've no idea if this is possible, but if it happened and acceptance was dependent on a miraculous recovery, then that's exactly what Hollie would probably claim

I'll say again that IMO, and since they're in a position where all appeals have been refused and a another not yet made, the hospital should act tonight and bring this to an end. Such an ending has after all been repeatedly judged the best thing for Archie - whose welfare was supposed to be the priority here - and though it would no doubt be followed by claims from Hollie that they'd killed him, that's hardly any different from her current approach and in any case isn't credible

And who knows, it might even enable her to begin on whatever healing's possible

I think my worry is what happens at the point that the equipment gets shut down, I fear for the staff's safety

The hospital need to act NOW, today! before HD can file any more paperwork! And even if she feigns a heart attack or whatever.
Otherwise this really will just go on forever.

Oh no @stayingaliveisawayoflife

Please let him go now. Moving will only cause trauma for the family. That's all it will do. And shame on those giving false hope.

I've seen the reports about Hollies past. I have no opinion right now but a lot of it doesn't filter through to what's happening now, which is the most important, what happens now with Archie

CLC isn't a regulated legal firm. However, she is represented in court by a well-respected QC who is instructed by solicitors.

One of the hardest things any of us will do in our lives, will have done, is to let someone you love go. A parent, a sibling, a partner, a child. It is an act of courage, of generosity. To realise, in a moment, more clearly than you have felt anything, that this is not about me; I must them go. I have then to navigate my own loss and sorrow. But I just to let them go. Many of us will have been in that stark moment. And will have known we did the right thing.

@midsomermurderess ❤️

I suspect that at this point the hospital is entitled to say that it won't consent to any further delays and that the only thing they will respond to is a court order. It would be open to the family's lawyers to try for an emergency out of hours application which could be dealt with by phone if necessary, but I think at the very least the lawyers would have to be in a position to assure the court that a move is safe and that it would actually achieve something.

To be honest it's probably best if the thread does get pulled now. This is the end of this awful saga. Even if there were further appeals the highest authorities in the UK and Europe have already sealed this now. It can't go any further. Now the poor child can be allowed to rest in peace.

Their legal team is Edward Devereux QC, Bruno Quintavalle and Robert George instructed by Andrew Storch Solicitor. Andrew Storch seems to be a criminal rather than a family law practioner.

We thought the end had been reached when the Court of Appeal pronounced and the family effectively said they weren't going to try the EHRC. I wouldn't like to make any assumptions at this stage.

No one on the planet would be Hollie right now.

She’s in a horrifying position and in a desperate attempt to displace her terror, grief and guilt she’s making the loudest noise possible. Good for her.

The point she’s making is wrong, but something suggests it’s not all about technicalities for her. They’re for us and the increasing number of people who get put in similar life-changing positions to this boy’s mother.

Hollie has been remarkably brave given that she’s already lost her son, and could never have won her legal battle. There is huge nobility in being someone who’s lost that much and just carried on putting her point of view forward.

Hollie’s point of view isn’t just a howl
if grief: it deserves unflinching bravery from us too, not least for the gruesome details, and unflinching and thorough consideration from society for as many times as it needs.

I hope Archie’s legacy will be that these people are helped with legal clarity that needs to come out of this case, and that Hollie gets the public respect she deserves for fighting her battle. And that she gets time to grieve in private.

They've also had Moore Barlow as solicitors at one stage, and they don't seem to be completely out of the picture now.

Poor Hollie. Despite the fact that I disagree vehemently with her actions, I still feel desperately sorry for her. I think she’s vulnerable and grossly exploited. She doesn’t have much power here and I think does deserve enormous compassion. (And has had it for the most part here. It’s a privilege, ladies)

Please, please can people keep it respectful. Poor Archie’s case raises huge and important ethical issues, especially about women rights, and it’s really important they are raised and discussed. The families background isn’t really relevant, only the current tragedy.

If some of the factors leading up to it do merit public discussion, it would be appropriate to do that in relation to any inquest, not now. I’m not comfortable calling him dead or alive frankly. Dying, perhaps? Anyway, it’s not appropriate now. No matter how much the family have left themselves open to scrutiny, now is really not the time.

"To be honest it's probably best if the thread does get pulled now. This is the end of this awful saga. Even if there were further appeals the highest authorities in the UK and Europe have already sealed this now. It can't go any further. Now the poor child can be allowed to rest in peace."

Sorry I don't agree with this. These threads have been comforting to those that have made that decision, absolutely informative with access and discussion on the legal documents and experience from other medical professionals. It all builds a large picture to hopefully be kept in mind for the future of anyone that has to face such a situation.

Definitely shouldn't be swept under the carpet because it is a traumatic topic because this will happen again.

Unfortunately i don't think this is the end of the saga. The next one will be demanding he goes abroad then to a hospice everything to delay the inevitable.

So those of us who didn't do that have done our loved ones a disservice?

Those of us who didn't go to court, be verbally horrendous to staff, caught the media, didn't put out pictures of our loved ones in their last days, didn't love them or fight hard enough for them?

Because that is exactly how your post reads.

As with the Gard case, I would expect at this point that hospital and any further court requests about a hospice place or any other wishes are handled for the family as quickly and gently as possible and to try and find some way of some kind of agreement or compromise for the family. The courts and all involved services did everything they could for the Gards at this point, and I'm sure will do the same now within the constraints of the situation.

Yes, this is my main concern. I have done a little background reading and I feel terribly for all the staff involved in his care. I have no doubt that the police will be brought in and kept at arm's length.

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Dance-Battersbee-v-Barts-Health-NHS-Trust-and-Another.pdf

See paragraphs 30-37. Whilst the court stopped short of saying outright that the original judge got it wrong, that is the clear thrust of these paragraphs. The conclusion at paragraph 49 is clear that, given that a diagnosis of death could not be made, the judge should have proceeded on the basis of best interests alone and not considered whether Archie is still alive. Allowing the appeal overturned the original judgement in its entirety, so everything since has proceeded on a best interests basis, which would not be appropriate if Archie is legally or medically dead,

I typed a reply but it wouldn't post , I thought it ad been pulled .
Cannot re-type the whole thing

She says she's doing this for Archie but also all the other parents who obviously cannot stand up to the Consultants and won't question and just accept the hospital 'executing children' ( patronising much , Hollie )

Has Hollie said Archie has ADHD ? She hasn't mentioned in any interviews so have posters decided as he misses school he has ADHD? )

There is no Doctor From Far Flung Lands who are going to swoop in and swoop off with Archie on a Medical Flight .

Hopefully when the Post Mortem reveals the extent of Archies bodily damage and the longevity of his satus of Dead , she might apologise . But likely she'll contest the bloody post mortem .

Just to add, being factually dead is not the same as being medically or legally dead. You are factually dead when you die, but you are not medically dead or legally dead until death has been diagnosed.

Yes, didnt little CG get moved to a hospice where his ventilator was removed shortly afterwards although obviously every case is different and we are not looking after these poor children or determining their care.

Sorry I don't agree with this. These threads have been comforting to those that have made that decision, absolutely informative with access and discussion on the legal documents and experience from other medical professionals. It all builds a large picture to hopefully be kept in mind for the future of anyone that has to face such a situation.

Definitely shouldn't be swept under the carpet because it is a traumatic topic because this will happen again.

Agree with this.

These issues arise again and again purely because people want debate shut down and to be kind.

You can have absolute compassion for someone without agreeing with their course of action.

For the most part everyone here has oodles of compassion. They are also mostly concerned about how these bigger groups gain such power over vulnerable people in these situations.

Everyone deals with things differently, I don't think it has to be a competition about who is dealing with it the "correct" way.

People make the best decision they can.