Labour and anti-semitism

[LeLaluifleur]

Apologies for DF links but ignoring the lowbrow style 'journalism' for a minute, I am perturbed about these reports.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3531852/Labour-councillor-20-suspended-claims-called-Hitler-greatest-man-history-latest-anti-Semitic-scandal-hit-Corbyn-s-party.html#comments

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3532042/Ignorant-Godless-Hateful-Corbyn-s-contempt-Jews-disgrace-withering-attack-Labour-leader-donor-backed-party-400-000-2015-Election.html

I like Corbyn a little bit but judge his cavalier attitude to anti-semitism harshly.

Has anti-semitism become cool among labour supporters or something? What is being done about the anti-semitism coming from some labour politicians and how to deal with the Islamist flavour of anti-semitism as displayed by Labour councillor Aysegul Gurbuz (and others) for examples who posted statements such as this on twitter :

"Ed Miliband is Jewish. He will never become prime minister of Britain."
"Adolf Hitler was praised as the ‘greatest man in history".

will corbyn ask ken to leave?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36160135

the proverbial shit is hitting the fan.

Let's hope Labour expel this dreadful women permanently from the party. Perhaps she could take her own advice and deport herself permanently somewhere else where her bigoted views would be appreciated.

Breaking News:

Ex-London Mayor Ken Livingstone suspended from Labour Party after defending MP accused of "anti-Semitic" comments

Cross posted. About time too.

Live coverage on BBC now.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36050790

For some reason I feel like crying. In this day and age, I cannot comprehend where we are at in society.

"Ken said that in all his time as a Labour member he had never heard anyone say anything anti-Semitic and suggested the "Israel lobby" had orchestrated a campaign to smear people."

Sounds like a handful of people on this thread.

This is worth a read:

www.jewishsocialist.org.uk/news/item/statement-on-labours-problem-with-antisemitism-from-the-jewish-socialists-g

Aimunder - the JSG represents about 25 people, almost all of whom have long ago given up any connection with Judaism, except for the purposes of saying: "asajew, I hate the Israelis"

The history - not the childish Twitter / Facebook myth - is that Israel's neighbours kept invading them and losing.
if you invade someone - and lose - the victor may sometimes legally keep territory it won from you
e.g. Germany after it lost WW1 & 2

. 1947 U N Partition Plan divided Palestine into 3 states: Arab, Jewish, Jerusalem / Bethlehem
. 1948 Egypt, Jordan & Syria attacked & invaded the Israeli areas - and lost
. 1948 UN General Asssembly Resolution 181 granted the State of Israel the right to retain the aras it had won in the war, because the original state was judged too vulnerable to invasion.
It was this UN Resolution which resulted in 700,00 Palestinians leaving or being expelled, as Israel exercised its right to control territory it had been granted. That was quite legal.
. 1967 Egypt, Syria & Jordan again planned an invasion, but their massed forces were attacked by Israel just before the invasion. Again, Israel won a lot of territory, some it hung on to for at least a while, until it received security guarantees, e.g. the Golan Heights from Syria
. 1973 Egypt & Syria attcked Israel when they were off guard on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish year. After initial losses, Israel counter-attacked and gained a lot of territory, most of which it returned later. Again, a UN-brokered peace process.

Any binding UN resolution to sort out this mess will be vetoed by the US and others unless it guarantees Israel's security. Any other resolutions may excite moral indignation, but don't count in law.

Why do people (whoever you are) keep posting links? I'm surprised you all put so much store in the opinions of newspapers and their journalists. Why should their opinions effect mine or yours? Surely, you can make up your own mind? The facts are there for all to see. Of course, I could have misinterpreted your remarks in this regard. (Imagine - remarks being misinterpreted here?!

I've heard the accusations and I've seen the core evidence, the tweets etc and I'm also familiar with the Facebook meme which has caused all the fuss for N Shah.

My own view is - I'm unconvinced that Anti Semitism is running rampant through the Labour party. Far from it.. The void between the evidence that's been offered and the condemnations that are flying about is immense. Even if they were all true, what would it prove? The social media postings of a handful of mostly junior party members have no representative significance, and they do not demonstrate widespread anti-Semitism. Indeed, given that an estimated 7-10% of the UK population do not like Jews, It would be a bit of a miracle if Labour, total membership - 400,000 people and Britain’s largest political party, did not harbour a small number of anti-Semites within its ranks.

Whilst you're squinting so desperately hard to see 'Anti Semitism' in every word and action from any low level Labour member - how about the way Ed Miliband was depicted by the right wing media? Over and over again he was depicted as an untrustworthy, North London, Metropolitan, ready to stab his country in the back. Born of a traitorous father who couldn't eat a bacon sandwich properly. ? That was just a bit of fun I s'pose? Stephen Pollard thought it was..

This is very time consuming and any more would be just repeating myself so I'll leave you with my analysis of all this. All of this current Anti-Semitism hysteria is from three sources. 1. the Right, which is trying to divert attention away from their own internal tensions and unpopular policies. 2. The Pro-Israel activists, who hope to get rid of a prominent critic of Israel and to discredit Palestine solidarity activism. 3. The right wing of the Labour Right, which is looking to oust J Corbyn.

Anti-Semitism in the labour party is not news as far as I'm concerned. I worked in politics for 15 years and I have always been convinced that it's endemic within the party. The APPG released a report on this many years ago now and it got next to no traction. Ken Livingston Anti-Semitic? Of course he is. I was standing behind him after he accidentally walked into a Labour Friends of Israel event

"how about the way Ed Miliband was depicted by the right wing media? Over and over again he was depicted as an untrustworthy,"

What about, what about, what about.......
Feel free to start a thread on this topic if it is of interest to you. This thread, as the title indicates, is about anti-semitism in the Labour party, which comes with a particular set of characteristics, namely ant-zionism and its anti-semitic overtones.

"This is very time consuming and any more would be just repeating myself so I'll leave you with my analysis of all this. "

thank you I can do without your so-called 'analysis'. is this what they teach people in school these days?

"Hysteria." "Squinting so desperately to see anti-semitism" "Made up evidence". "And so what if its true?"

Wow. Here we have another friend of the Jewish people!

Olivia, why did you lie about what people on this thread were saying?

olivia - of course there is anti-Semitism on the right, too. Who here is denying that? Of course the way Ed Miliband was depicted was anti-Semitic. That doesn't mean that the left get off scot-free, though, if they are also anti-Semitic.

Nor is anyone arguing that every Labour member is anti-Semitic - I'm a Labour member and certainly am not! In my local party, the only religious celebration that was marked by the local members was Chanukah, actually! (I live in a Jewish area.) So I'd certainly never claim all of Labour was anti-Semitic. But the fact that some people high up in the party like Livingstone are blatantly anti-Semitic has allowed other anti-semites like Naz Shah to crawl out from under their stones and go public with their repulsive racism.

I'm glad that Livingstone has been suspended, as as I said above, it was him or me!

The man has been mad for years.

It's very, very time consuming putting you hysterical idiots right, don't you know!

Olivia - you complain about other people not having original thoughts, and then copy your argument almost word for word out of this article :

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jamie-stern-weiner/jeremy-corbyn-hasn-t-got-antisemitism-problem-his-opponents-do

Or is it okay because you cut and pasted rather than include the link? At least the posters who have included links have been honest about their sources. Or did you just dream up the sentences that happened to be word for word the same!

sam

I have not read TDT, I am upset, this is horrible.

"Hysteria." "Squinting so desperately to see anti-semitism" "Made up evidence". "And so what if its true?"

Jeez

Well the line Olivia used about Naz's tweets being tongue in cheek.. tasteless; the line about Andrew Neil' comparison of Naz with Eichmann being hysterical - all in that link Sam posted!

Olivia (whoever you are) [Grin] will you not share your own thoughts?

So what did Einstein actually say? I am upset if KL is telling lies. Why was he defending Naz?

From the Guardian: "A party source tells me Jeremy Corbyn in Grimsby today told Lab colleague: "We are not suspending Ken, unless we suspend John [Mann] too".

... interesting.

How can you suspend John Mann? On what grounds? We need more whistleblowers like him.

I don't know Grunkle, I thought John Mann did a brave thing.

JC stated: "There were grave concerns about the language [Livingstone] used. We had a discussion about it and decided we would suspend him and he would go through an investigation by party."

Does anyone know what "an investigation by party" involves? I wonder if the various Labour MPs tweeting and sprouting anti-semitic hate will be reinstated after a while.