Labour and anti-semitism

[LeLaluifleur]

Apologies for DF links but ignoring the lowbrow style 'journalism' for a minute, I am perturbed about these reports.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3531852/Labour-councillor-20-suspended-claims-called-Hitler-greatest-man-history-latest-anti-Semitic-scandal-hit-Corbyn-s-party.html#comments

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3532042/Ignorant-Godless-Hateful-Corbyn-s-contempt-Jews-disgrace-withering-attack-Labour-leader-donor-backed-party-400-000-2015-Election.html

I like Corbyn a little bit but judge his cavalier attitude to anti-semitism harshly.

Has anti-semitism become cool among labour supporters or something? What is being done about the anti-semitism coming from some labour politicians and how to deal with the Islamist flavour of anti-semitism as displayed by Labour councillor Aysegul Gurbuz (and others) for examples who posted statements such as this on twitter :

"Ed Miliband is Jewish. He will never become prime minister of Britain."
"Adolf Hitler was praised as the ‘greatest man in history".

To conflate anti-Semitism with opposition to the state of Israel is to belittle the actual meaning of anti-Semitism.

Wow.

Oh yes, those silly Jews, always belittling anti-semitism. They're so stupid - paranoid? - devious? - they don't know what it means.

Did you mean opposition to the policies of the state of Israel or the existence of state of Israel itself. If you're position is that, like Bertrand you want to see the end of Israel then why am I not allowed to call you an anti-semite?

And if you read the thread, you'd see no one has said Corbyn is actively promoting anti-semitism or wanting blood so I dunno where you're getting that from.

ipity is doing exactly what she is accusing others of doing although pointing in the other direction, she just doesn't realise she is doing it you couldn't make this up waving corpses around ffs

oliviaclottedcream anti-Semitism on this thread is being 'conflated' with anti-Semitism, i.e. hatred of Jews. You are conflating the situation in Israel and Palestine with the attitude to and treatment of Jews outside the Middle-East. Once again, the obsession with Israel to the exclusion of all other countries blinds you to what is happening HERE, to Jews, not Israelis. How many times does this have to be said? The idiot that tweeted that he'd called out a Muslim woman in the UK regarding the Brussels attacks was ridiculed and then arrested. But you & your fellow travellers simply cannot separate the situation in the ME with attacks on Jewish people outside the ME. Anti-Semitism existed long before 1948. Why can't you get it??

IPity and Olivia: have you understood this thread? Have you read the numerous articles posted to evidentially support well thought and nuanced positions? Have you read the personal testimonies of experiences of antisemitism? To echo what Barack Obama said about dumb republicans who questioned his economic strategy 'you don't know what you're talking about'. As for smearing Palestinian activism the contention here is that the vast majority of them do a grand job of that themselves. As for Olivia's comment about opposition to the state of Israel, wow. Thanks for proving the entire premise of this thread.

Oh vey.

There's plenty on the Conservatives side too - believe me.

Name them then. Who they are, what they've said and when. Should be easy enough.

The idiot that tweeted that he'd called out a Muslim woman in the UK regarding the Brussels attacks was ridiculed and then arrested.

I think the comparison of him with the terrorists who murdered Charlie Hebdo offices AND the 4 people in the Jewish supermarket is interesting.

• With the abusive tweeter - most people agree he is a stupid racist. Why on earth would a woman in the street be responsible for the entire Muslim population? Lunacy!
• With the murder in the supermarket, however, we have a 'proper' journalist saying, well you Jews hurt the Palestinians. I mean, WTAF?
• We have people writing them out of history/ignoring it completely.
• We have groups of people, incredible as it sounds, saying, well actually the Jews did it: (Jews control ISIS don't you know).

And these people are not anti-semitic apparently! Incredible isn't it?

Well what I've learnt from this thread:

1. There are people who are far better qualified to identify anti-semitism than Jewish people. Far far better. And Jews belittle anti-semitism apparently. Presumably these people know far more about racism against black people than any black person too.
2. That wondering why anti-zionists never talk about the discrimination of other groups is 'smearing palestinian activists, discusting, waving around their corpses and they must desist at once presumably because there are actually boycotts, marches and petitions against Russia, Saudi, China and Iraq and Iran going on right NOW. (Oh dear, I missed them all)
3. That the Conservative party is also rammed full of anti-semites! So that's good news everyone!.

At the risk of going off-topic, I think it is possible to think about why other groups and conflicts don't get nearly as much as attention as the Palestinians without seeking to deflect attention away from their cause or trying to let Israel off the hook. There was an interesting thread about it on Mumsnet a couple of years ago.
The Palestinians in Lebanon have also been treated abysmally over the past 68 years, but this is rarely mentioned other than in the context of the Nakba and the right of return. There are as far as I know no pickets outside the Lebanese embassy, no Lebanon Apartheid Week events and no calls to boycott Lebanon.
I also remember hearing a phone-in on Vanessa Feltz's show about anti-Semitism (during the Gaza war in 2014) - one caller describing himself as "not anti-Semitic, just anti-Zionist" said that any anti-Semitism must just be "the chickens coming home to roost".

Bet that went down well. I loved Vanessa's show but the earlier time doesn't work and there are so few calls.

I would also like to hear about all these conservative anti-semites. Come on, we're all waiting!

I loathe the stupid bloody conservative party right now and they have plenty of loonies of their own. But I don't think they have that particular type of lunacy. AS seems to be very much a left wing (or rather "left meets right") thing these days.

You think I'm going to name names or tell you how I know it? You dont think there is anyone in the Conservative party that harbours Anti Semitic views?

Fair enough!

I'm watching the No Platforming debate on BBC News right now. This is our next generation of leaders. Speechless.

#slowlyfeelsallifedrainfrombody#

Why wouldn't you name names? These are public figures we are talking about.

Who are they? Seriously. Say who they are, or you're talking BS.

'I'm watching the No Platforming debate on BBC News right now. This is our next generation of leaders. Speechless. '

Caught the end of it, will try and watch it all on catchup. Agree, it is frightening what our future holds with these brainwashed politically correct automatons removing our liberties one step at a time. It is bad enough when you look at our current lot of leaders, but imagine what the next lot will be like.

Of course, it won't happen, because the way nature works is that common sense will once again prevail.

They were like a gang of brainwashed robots repeating their lines. Not many young students with an original thought.

'Not many young students with an original thought.'

Yes, this is the worrying thing, what are they being taught? How did they end up with positions that limit freedom and free speech and bully anyone with a different view under a holy cloak of claiming they are anti bullies.

Freedom of ideas and expression is the greatest thing we all are lucky to have. Without it, we become a North Korea where a ruling class will use illiberalism under the guise of liberalism to strip away our rights.

I thought there was a bit of 'The Crucible' about it, or cultural revolution overtones. Young kids lecturing the likes of Peter Tatchell and Julia Bindel, people who have been around the block. Maybe reading a wee bit too much into it

'Maybe reading a wee bit too much into it '

I think it is cultural revolution and the worrying thing is that the "useful idiots" will one day be used by illiberal forces to take away their and everyone else's freedoms too and they will have brought it about.

One day the same students will no platform anyone who criticises a robot as it will harm the rights of the robot. That is the logical path of inclusion and it will exclude human rights.

Witch hunting is a national sport in schools, it all started with Health and Safety, then CP and now anti radicalisation and British Values programming. It's no wonder the bunch we heard today are the products of such an education. It is only a stalwart of mainly public school students in Oxbridge they want to be separated from NUS that can see through the nonsense.

Maybe JSocs across the land should try to No Platform Malia?

I think that's the only way to get rid of No platforming, use it against Pro-Palestine "anti-Zionist" activists and people will soon stop wheeling it out at every opportunity.

I think that will just lead to a race to the bottom.

Olivia, I am STILL waiting to hear about the anti-semitic Tories that you apparently know all about.

I think that will just lead to a race to the bottom.

Olivia, I am STILL waiting to hear about the anti-semitic Tories that you apparently know all about.

Well you'll wait a long time.. Then again, that ought to keep you out of trouble..

.... Aaand back to the original OP. Naz Shah is part of the 2015 intake. No longer shocked, just weary.

order-order.com/2016/04/26/labour-mp-israelis-should-face-transportation-out-of-middle-east/

Olivia, do you mean that expressing concern about anti-Semitism is "trouble"?
If you've witnessed anti-Semitism from the Conservatives, surely it wouldn't be difficult or time-consuming to link to a tweet/article/blog post etc, or to describe some personal communication you've had? What's the point of bringing it up if you can't be bothered to elaborate on it?

at Naz Shah - OK, she wasn't an MP at the time, but it was only a couple of years ago.

Mm, they're uncovering more tweets from Naz Shah now: "The Jews are rallying" - Charming stuff.

The usual apologists will defend her, no doubt. I wonder if the Guardian will mention it?