Labour and anti-semitism

[LeLaluifleur]

Apologies for DF links but ignoring the lowbrow style 'journalism' for a minute, I am perturbed about these reports.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3531852/Labour-councillor-20-suspended-claims-called-Hitler-greatest-man-history-latest-anti-Semitic-scandal-hit-Corbyn-s-party.html#comments

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3532042/Ignorant-Godless-Hateful-Corbyn-s-contempt-Jews-disgrace-withering-attack-Labour-leader-donor-backed-party-400-000-2015-Election.html

I like Corbyn a little bit but judge his cavalier attitude to anti-semitism harshly.

Has anti-semitism become cool among labour supporters or something? What is being done about the anti-semitism coming from some labour politicians and how to deal with the Islamist flavour of anti-semitism as displayed by Labour councillor Aysegul Gurbuz (and others) for examples who posted statements such as this on twitter :

"Ed Miliband is Jewish. He will never become prime minister of Britain."
"Adolf Hitler was praised as the ‘greatest man in history".

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/21/new-nus-president-muslims-malia-bouattia

Right on cue. Proof, if any were needed, that I was absolutely right to cancel my Guardian subscription.

Oh the Guardian, heartsink.

Who has been limiting anyone's free expression? What have I missed?

Headline on front of today's Times:

"Oxford Threatens to Dump Student Union in Antisemitism Row"

Of course, as antisemitism becomes worse and worse, more and more Jews see the necessity of Israel's existence. My father is Jewish, and I was always an anti-Zionist, because I thought Israel's behaviour was appalling. But I am now extremely glad Israel exists and I support its continued existence - somewhere I will always be able to go no matter how bad it gets!

I also see that the bizarre focus on Israel to the exclusion of all other human rights issues for exactly what it is.

You can support Israel's existence & be a critic of Israel's policies.

There are some good articles on the internet, many written by American conservative Jewish commenators, which partially explain why this has increased in left wing social justice politically correct thinking.

I won't post them because it is all very depressing to read what has happened and why and how society is being changed by this faulty logic and thinking. But if anyone is interested, they can google things like victimhood hirearchy, victim value index etc which I think get quite close to explaining how this has come about on the left.

Claig! Long time no argue.

I think that victimhood complex does play a role, especially in Universities, but more important than that is simple, straightforward antisemitism, which has been around for donkey's years. It's always been around on the left (and the right), it's just that unfortunately now the leader of the Labour party seems to hang out with an awful lot of people who endorse the particular strain of left wing antisemitism which is closely bound up with the Israel/Palestine conflict.

'Claig! Long time no argue.'

We never argued, just debated

'victimhood complex does play a role'

It is worth reading those articles, because it is a thought process built on a faulty philoophy that has been pushed inadvertently by our left wing great and good and has now backfired.

'more important than that is simple, straightforward antisemitism'

Yes, there is definitely antisemitism, but I think there has been an insidious reflex whataboutism, moral realtivism, moral equivalence, faulty politically correct brainwashing logic involved which has infected the minds of many left wing social justice politically correct types who never were antisemitic just 20 years ago, to such an extent that an almost brainwashed mindless bullying is now involved which gives the left wingers a faulty sense of virtue signalling by brainwashedly backing the left wing's highest group in the victimhood hierarchy without thinking. It is a very dangerous turn in society and it will lead to intolerance towards groups lower down the hierarchy if it continues to grow and that will split society.

"This year I witnessed a child of mine getting up to speak at a political meeting at a leading university only to see the argument drowned out by hooligan white male students shouting: ‘Zio, Zio, Zio.’

To me this looks a bit like a brainwashed mob acting unthinkingly and drowning out free speech and liberty. I don't think it would have happened on universities just 30 years ago to such an extent and I think that politically correct victimhood hierarchy and grievance politics may have led to this.

The BBC reporter discussed earlier on was shockingly insensitive to the daughter of Holocaust survivors when after the Paris tragedy, he indulged in whataboutism. I don't know for sure, but I think that may have been an unthinking brainwashed whataboutism that has infected a lot of people due to this politically correct victimhood hierarchy.

People shouting : ‘Zio, Zio, Zio.’ on universities was practically unheard of 20 or 30 years ago. As another article said, that sort of thing was on the fringes of extreme right wing groups like the KKK.

For it to be so open now in universities means that something has changed in society where the people shouting it fear no sanction in doing it, and to me it seems that it is almost a left wing sense of virtue signalling brainwashed victimhood hierarchy faulty brainwashing.

I feel rather like Rip van Winkle.

I will read the articles, they sound interesting.

I think that antisemitism related to Israel/Palestine has been around for a long time on the left. My father likes to tell an anecdote about his University Labour club having a poster of a star of David with a giant cross through it on their wall, as a "show of support for the Palestinians". This was in 1975... He was unimpressed.

I think in the past the antisemitic left were not as emboldened as they are now. Now the leader of the Labour party comes from their faction, and his closest mates and his whole political career align with their views...

Marmite59 posted an article that shows the crazy thinking that has infected many politically correct types and it fails to see real suffering and tragedy based on what it sees as the position in the victimhood hierarchy

The Holocaust as ‘white on white crime’ and other signs of intellectual decay
...
I noted that I found most remarkable her assertion that multiple students had dismissively referred to the Holocaust as “white on white crime,” as if the “progressive” students there found it impossible to conceive of horrific racist violence outside the parameters of paradigmatic examples of racist violence in the United States"

www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/02/05/the-holocaust-as-white-on-white-crime-and-other-signs-of-intellectual-decay/

Marmite59 also posted someone's tweet

"'Just watched #NUSConference applaud someone for saying that NUS shouldn't commemorate Holocaust Memorial Day because it's not inclusive...'"

This is the crazy politically correct value judgement thinking based on "inclusion" that fails to see real suffering unless it conforms to the victim value index in the victimhood hierarchy. It is in my opinion psychological politically correct brainwashing and the left wing proponents of it like the NUS students actually feel almost virtuous by holding these crazy brainwashed views while repeating the brainwashing mantras of "inclusion" and political correctness.

It is very worrying for all of society what is happening to our culture due to this insidious form of thinking.

I wish people here would stop saying "What about the Syrians?" "What about the Kurds?" to try to smear Palestinian activism.

You don't care about Syrians or Kurds, you are just metaphorically waving their corpses around to try and win an argument. It's disgusting, please stop.

IPity, I don't think that is fair. Someone earlier posted about the Kurds, and I think it is a valid question - why is there not as much support for the Kurds as for the Palestinians from the left. There is support for the Kurds, but I think it is less than for the Palestinians. There is no talk of boycotts to help the Kurds for example.

I think it is partly due to politics and allies etc, partly to do with position in the victimhood hierarchy and partly to do with treating Israel differently to how other countries are treated, I think.

Everything has changed - but nothing has changed- they used to chant 'yiddos' in the street- they now chant 'zios' in the universities.
-'oh but that's about politics not religion'
Oh fuck off it is.

That article could only be in the guardian- that 'poor' NUS president held up to scrutiny for not condemning Isis. Wtaf

As for the yazhidis (and the Kurds, Ukrainians, Gays, Tibetans, the whole tragedy of Syria, etc etc) not fitting the designated oppressed minority slot - sadly I think it's more that their oppressors don't neatly fit the designated oppressor spot.

'sadly I think it's more that their oppressors don't neatly fit the designated oppressor spot'

Yes, I think that is the double-edged sword of the victimhood hierarchy in politically correct thinking. The highest value victims cannot be oppressors in this system. Some of the articles on the victim value index get close to explaining it, but it is very depressing to read.

'Everything has changed - but nothing has changed- they used to chant 'yiddos' in the street- they now chant 'zios' in the universities. '

Yes, but that was probably ill-educated yobs on the street and probably extreme right wing ones shouting "yiddos" in those days, and not educated left wing students at universities.

'Don't try to smear Palestinian activism'
Is that a joke?
You think screaming zios at Jewish students is Palestinian activism? Blimey.

I've been reading the comments underneath that Guardian article cited above, and they are for the most part very anti, with a lot of people specifically objecting to the anti-semitism. I did find that encouraging.

Unfortunately there has been antisemitism amongst educated left wingers for quite some time. I don't think it's a recent phenomenon: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism (a history from 1967).

You also have the communist antisemitism of Stalin et al, and the socialist antisemitism of the 20s.

Good to see people seeing Malia for what she is - but a lot of the comments on the article have been deleted! Par for the course with CiF I think!

Just saw there is a programme on BBC2 next Tuesday at 10.45pm about antisemitism in France (Never Again: Fear and Faith in Paris).

Sorry BBC1

But Corbyn isn't exactly the man- of- action type LeLaluifleur. Making snap decisions and ruthless with it -- is he ? He's reluctant to attack the tories and when he does it's fairly toothless. He's a bit ponderous, rather slow to act. Considered and probably listens and thinks a bit too much. That said I dont believe anyone could accuse him of seeking to promote anti-Semitism and wanting to see even more blood. He has suspended this Kirby women pending investigation of her claims .

I agree with Bert here... To conflate anti-Semitism with opposition to the state of Israel is to belittle the actual meaning of anti-Semitism. As if not sharing the religious belief of one particular religious group that they are entitled to the land of the Palestinians, is line up with the likes of Hitler???

These allegations (of anti-Semitism) have been aimed at a couple of marginal leftists,Tony Greenstein (Jewish), and Gerry Downing (eccentric), by the Jewish press as well as Blairites in the PLP, who have suggested that Corbyn is somehow tolerant of anti-Semitism. Pathetic really -- a desperate attempt to try to stir up fear and antipathy about Corbyn because his supporters tend to have more sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians and are critical (and I agree with them) of the type of state Israel has developed into an apartheid one practically!

What's an acceptable way one can condemn Israel and it's land grabs, disproportionate attacks on Gaza, shooting people at checkpoints and claiming self-defence then, I'm wondering?

There's bound to be a few anti Semites in an organisation as big as the labour party and if they can be rooted out and booted out. There's plenty on the Conservatives side too - believe me..

I don't think I can stand to watch it, Hygellig

Alyosha, yes there has been antisemitism amongst educated left wingers for quite some time. Its interesting though it is revealing itself now so much so that the simple position of accepting a Jewish homeland - a Zionist - has become such a dirty word among the Left. I would never have believed it 20 years ago.

Its interesting that Ipity thinks this thread is about smearing Palestinian activists. Where are you getting that from IPity? Links please.

Thirtyninesteps - you seem to be claiming that because the Bible says (allegedly - I'll take your word for it) that 'Jews are the chosen race' we should all accept this. What about people who don't believe in anything the Bible says? You think some ancient book holds the key to everything? what a laugh.

Anyone claiming that any race or religion is inherently superior is both deluded and dangerous. As well as massively and deeply stupid.