It seems someone in Germany has woken up and smelled the coffee

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

This from Reuters..

www.spiegel.de/international/europe/following-the-path-of-the-paris-terror-weapons-a-1083461.html#ref=nl-international

Germany is proposing to demand that refugees integrate into German life or loose rights of residency.. It appears to include learning Grman and not treating women as second class...If only some of our politicians would do likewise.

They just spoke only English, even at home. It must be been hard but bloody hell, they are the most eloquent lot. And that was from a completely different language and alphabet.

Joilei so you don't speak German well enough to read the papers yet want us to believe your statement that far right crime presents a worse problem in terms of resources, impact etc? No, sorry not convinced

Well what Jolie says is simply not true, yes F Right crime is on the up, thats for sure its being sparked by the events in Germany however its migrant crime that the police are fearing.

Perhaps her understanding of German is selective

widow

I find it odd in an article clearly stating the MIGRANT crimes the police are fearing that the Far right is the only element being singled out! Of course the far right is on the rise and of course it will be causing additional stressors on the police, we know Merkels legacy will be biggest rise of far right since the war.

Happily I don't have to give a fuck what any of you think because none of you actually know me or anything about me.

Toodles, I'm out.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12104339/German-minister-calls-for-special-conference-to-address-rising-far-Right-violence.html

www.ibtimes.co.uk/germany-far-right-violence-doubled-2015-according-govt-figures-1543301

mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9440ER20130506

Perhaps crime on both sides is a problem? Six of one, half a dozen of another as my mum used to say?

So that makes it square then. Can we move back to original points and discuss what makes actual values?

I can see the Far Right are on the rise, its frightening, I find it odd though, that some posters are happy to talk about it, but not perhaps the reasons WHY its on the rise.

I dont understand why any poster would look at leaked police documents then totally ignore the MIGRANT crimes listed therein?

On the other hand, this sort of sticking the head in the sand over facts IS ironically one of the reasons why the FAR RIGHT is on the rise.

Gobbolino - the point is that a police claiming to be mostly scared migrant crime, but which has shown to have a blind spot regarding crime against migrants needs to be looked at carefully.

Not saying that all German police are the same, not even saying that there isn't any crime committed by migrants, but it's a fact that German policing has an issue there.

Anyway, the point Jolie was looking to make was more about the way how investigations are done over there.

Warm, Jolie you don't know me but you happily made an assumption and when challenged you have acted like a teenager. I just pointed out you were a little rude to do so. If I did that every time I was challenged I'd be hiding in a hole by now.

All crime should be a priority Widow, whoever commits it don't you think? That would be my take on it. I don't care who does the crime, all I want is the penalty to be equal in every way. And also equal to the crime committed, that would be the most important thing for me.

yes of course Sports!

But the additional problem is now a huge surge in crime, and perhaps not enough new police officers, admin staff and so on to tackle it.

This is the problem when you massively increase population size and do not rapidly increase your infrastructure to deal with it.

What happens in the mean time?

You're right there Gobolino. It does pose an issue. It's more a matter of logistics in essence, supply and demand. There is a demand for policing but no supply. It in that case has a potential for problems. It's a very simple equation.

Just cal, me angel of the morning angel...just got well distracted!

According to Ofsted, 'fundamental British values' are
democracy
the rule of law
individual liberty
mutual respect for and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs and for those without faith

How does that work when someone arrives from the MENA where they have laws that discriminate against women?

I rather think Oftead should make it clear that UK law only law that applies. That respect for those with different faith does not allow those of another faith to conflict with UK law and expression of lidividual liberty.

Above all else, I think immigrants who keep to the traditions of the place they left need to explain to themselves and us why they want to live here and import the place they left. (That goes for UK emigrants as well).

Prof you appear to confuse integration with assimilation. I'm one of those migrants who refuses to give up her culture and teaches her children about it. I want them to know the songs and stories my Mum told me as a child. Know about and try out the customs of my country of origin. Why should I cut off my (and therefore their) roots?
Integration goes in both directions - of course as a migrant I need to follow the laws of the country I moved to, and appreciate customs etc. But at the same time I can bring new things, and can add to the host country's culture over time. That's nothing to be feared and normal evolution.

I'm not advocating bringing in FGM or anything that causes bodily harm or restricts anyone's freedoms (but then that aspect is dealt with under law anyway).

"I've family who moved here. Their attitude was - we chose to come here, so when in Rome... They switched language so that the kids could learn properly (all went into uni, one doing English lit), went to evening classes to brush up, made a point of visiting museums, reading the classics they hadn't come across, etc....They just spoke only English, even at home. It must be been hard but bloody hell, they are the most eloquent lot. And that was from a completely different language and alphabet."

You are trying to tell me that your relatives came to the UK with English which was obviously some way from fluent, and then decided to drop their own native tongue altogether and raise their kids using only "evening class" English? That is a pretty crazy decision for all sorts of reasons.

Speaking the local national language is VERY importantI am a permanent resident of a non English speaking country myself, and I speak and write the local language and make sure my daughter does too. But I am also making damn sure she is growing up fluent in my own native language of English too. There are lots and lots of very good reasons for doing this, and being bilingual and speaking a minority language at home does not cause educational issues, nor is it an integration issue in and of itselfkids speaking Chinese, Hindi and Gujerati at home are doing very well at school in the UK, and there are few complaints of integration problems from these groups.

As for "values"--how about talking about "enlightenment values" rather than British values? I would rather circumvent the whole tedious area of trying to decide how "British values" are somehow distinct from German or Norwegian or French values.

Gobbilini - why are you suggesting extra police and support? Why must we accept an increase in crime?

You seem to be admitting there will be a large increase in crime.

I'm not advocating bringing in FGM or anything that causes bodily harm or restricts anyone's freedoms (but then that aspect is dealt with under law anyway)

Sadly it still goes on, the law is not doing enough to stop it and the law is failing women in communities who practise honor killing too. They - the police don't understand it and often return the women to the community members who perpetrate the violence.

Gobbilini - why are you suggesting extra police and support? Why must we accept an increase in crime?

I am sure I was talking about Germany the article I quoted was about Germany. It was about a leaked document by the german police and their fears over more migrant crime.

I was talking about the fact that Merkel has rapdily increased her population size and with migrants who SOME OF THEM are prone to crime. But the police in Germany as per the article are struggling. Should GERMANY be in this position? NO!

Should we in the UK have to be in this position? We already have been, when the population was increased from EE.

You seem to be admitting there will be a large increase in crime

Um.....I know if you allow in 10 people and 1 person is a criminal, most structures can assimilate that, you let in 100, and 10 are a criminal, again most structures can deal with that. When you start talking about MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, of course the criminal number will increase significantly but the host country will not have worked with for sight to increase their police, expand prisons and so on.

This means, the population gets "thrown under the bus" in the mean time.

I am VERY DISSAPOINTED to see the post with a really offensive nasty word has been left up.

Why? Is it OK to go easy on posters who use nasty Disablist language?

Do disabled people count?

Have also reported for use of disabilist language.....

fourmummy --- Cultural imperialism? Pah. Evidence-based medicine or witch doctor? Female teachers working or women at home? Secularism or theocracy? Science or religion? Equality for minority groups or persecution? Equal Opportunities Act or religious law? Instead of getting bogged down in 'British/English values', why can't we teach the above given that this is Britain today and this is indeed what we are meant to be teaching.

I agree. The Left (Marxists) totally dominate our education system as well as law, police, NHS. Look what happened to Gove when he tried to make improvements - removed.

In USA if you are an immigrant you join 'the stream' and become American, and in the schools you pledge allegiance daily. In the UK, we are tripping over ourselves allowing fragmentation and thinking about newcomers too much, instead of laying it out, i.e. This is Britain, these are our laws, you need to learn English before you can receive a passport and realise that any show of separatism and hostility will not be tolerated.

there are different "leftist" values on both sides of the argument. The old guard want to protect the principles of secularism and human rights, the younger generations are more inclined to favour the principles of individual and religious freedom.

The problem the young have is not thinking through the reason why headscarves want to be worn by women, when even their own grandmothers did not. They just bang on about 'freedom'. The reason for the scarf is to convey separateness and to make a political statement. The naive young do not realise that muslim women who want to wear scarves are privately very critical and not well-disposed towards non-muslim French women. France should absolutely dig in its heels about no religious garments or jewellery to be worn in public. It is divisive and un-French.

You just can't pretend that where you live is the same as back home.

And yet thousands of British-born girls and boys are asked to live between two cultures. It is difficult for them to fully be themselves in front of their parents and life becomes even more difficult when the girl is pressured to marry young, and son pressured to marry a bride from his parent's country.