It seems someone in Germany has woken up and smelled the coffee

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

This from Reuters..

www.spiegel.de/international/europe/following-the-path-of-the-paris-terror-weapons-a-1083461.html#ref=nl-international

Germany is proposing to demand that refugees integrate into German life or loose rights of residency.. It appears to include learning Grman and not treating women as second class...If only some of our politicians would do likewise.

I don't see anything wrong with having tolerance, free speech, respect for others, respect for the place where you live as values. They are not exclusively British and something that everyone who lives here can take ownership of and subscribe to.

All the kids at DS school know that we should behave nicely and take ownership of the values above because they know that it makes the school a nicer place for everyone to learn in.

As for learning the language of where you live, it just makes it easier. It means you can go to any shop and ask for what you want if you can't see it. You can ask for a bus ticket, ask what the time is if your watch has stopped, where the toilets are, watch all the channels on TV not just a few. I'm brushing up my Spanish again so I can ask for things when we go there this summer, makes things easier, even DS will be learning some.

As woodenspoon says above there is the one of democracy as not all countries are democratic, but it is one that one can take ownership of without necessarily having experience of. It is also one that countries other than our own do have too.

BIWI - the Irish, Welsh, & Scottish always seem very proud of their individual heritage ( as well as identifying as being part of Great Britain ) & no one bats an eyelid -,yet when it comes to England & the English, if you display an English flag or want to identify as English you're seen as a racist for some reason - maybe you can explain why that is?

My personal view is. if you want to come & live in the UK then you learn our language & embrace our way of life - if you don't want to then what the hell are you doing here?

However we cannot ignore the fact that we have people coming here to live who think that women are inferior, girl babies should be terminated, marrying your kids off to a person 'back home' by force is absolutely fine, and murdering someone who does not share your belief system is justified and to be lauded.

We have modern society ills too that should be addressed in schools too- social media is a bloody Pandora's box.

Because the flag of St George has been 'taken' by those who want to portray England as a place for white people only? So it's become a symbol for petty minded, stupid racists.

But that's not what I was asking.

I was asking what 'English values' are, that we want immigrants to espouse.

(Although actually, I was also interested that there is, supposedly, a definition of British values. How those can be claimed as British uniquely, though, I don't know!)

I'd also ask you to define what you mean by 'our way of life'.

They don't need to be uniquely British though, do they?
Most decent law abiding people would honour those values.

I think it should be taken a step further and some basic philosophy and sociology should be taught in schools.
I think many people, including some immigrants, have forgotten how to question and reason.
Believing any nonsense you read in the media and social media is detrimental to upholding those values.

Well if we're talking about our country then of course we'll be saying 'British values' - the Americans want their immigrants to live the 'American way' -etc, etc, what values to you think we should be promoting in Britian? - Latvian? Brazilian?

You can still retain your heritage, follow your religion, speak your own language etc whilst upholding those values.

I just think it's a good thing. Being a child of intergrated immigrants, I see a lot of disrespect and intolerance from and for different communities.
Maybe I'm a being naive and a bit romantic in thinking that instilling those values can only be beneficial.

I think they're fantastic values and of course we should agree to uphold them.

Actually, in PSHE lessons I think you'll find that a lot of that is taught already.

PSHE

This is not about loosing heritage or sense of where you came from, it's about ensuring core common values are established and widely practised. Integration is vital in terms of forming unity and communities in a melting pot of different cultures, nowhere is this more apparent than in Paris where there isn't the tolerance of certain cultures and religions especially in schools the way there is in the UK. If your looking at terrorism and the way that they recruit, they prey on the youngsters and give them the promise of belonging and acceptance.

... but I'd still like a definition of 'our way of life'!

I think it's a difficult balancing act.

In France the position has always been, "if you move to France you have to embrace our language and values". And we've enforced this pretty strictly (hence the ban on headscarves, etc)

But look where it's gotten us - we have huge problems with our second- and third-generation immigrants, who have no economic opportunities and look for identity and validation in their "original" culture, sometimes in the form of radical Islam. If you try to erase a culture and demand the adoption of a new one instead, you can expect a degree of backlash somewhere down the line.

I much prefer the English and American way of encouraging multiculturalism. But it is true there have to be at least some shared values, otherwise there is nothing holding the society together. So yeah, balancing act...

Posted to early dammit. So by making sure integration is a high priority where high numbers of migrants are living you are working on eliminating that feeling of isolation, surely it's a win win that everyone can gain from.

I think the British values I can identify (with an outsider's perspective!) are tolerance and a tradition of respect for individual liberties. They're not exactly generic "western" values, for instance they're not the values I would identify with France.

Countries should never ban or attempt to stop people from embracing there religions and cultures, I think that's where the danger lies. I however feel that there absolutely needs to be a set of common, core values instilled and agreed upon.

Chalala We're not talking about complex human rights laws here, we're talking about basic respect for men and women alike, the right to education and health and crucially abiding to the laws of which apply to you when you reside in that country.

I agree Voteforpedr0.

In theory the problem is when aspects of the immigrant culture are incompatible with the core values of the host country. But in practice, cultures are surprisingly adaptable, and cultural amalgamation happens naturally - as long as people are treated with respect, not discriminated against, etc (that's where we failed in France...)

My dh isn't British and I used to live in his home country. When I lived there, I tried to learn the language, the history and the culture. I travelled around the country to learn more about it. I also made sure my dcs did the same. Now we're in the UK, we sometimes meet up with friends of my dh from his home. I am astonished at the lack of knowledge and respect for this country from his friends. They know nothing about it and are extremely quick to mock it and complain. Their home country is basically a dictatorship with a struggling economy and lots of poverty and injustice yet they can't say one positive thing about the UK. Sorry for ranting, we had them for dinner at the weekend and I had to hear a lot of moaning so I need to get it off my chest! I sat there thinking 'why do you live here then?!'. But I know the answer - the better quality of life, better education and opportunities for their kids and better salaries so Britain must be doing something right!!

This isn't new news. Germany has had these requirements for years.

It's just spin.

I don't think the americans do encourage multiculturalism. You have to pledge allegiance to the flag every day in school! That's one of the reasons that America is a (comparatively) successful blend imo. If you move to america you must show that you want to become an american.

We go the other way and worry about upsetting people. We therefore encourage people to live in their own communities and to continue with their own cultural practices. That causes issues, not the integration. Everyone should be encouraged to integrate as much as possible imo. I'm all for a diverse population in terms of ethnic mix but I think its important that everyone feels "British" if they are living permanently in Britain.

"British values" (what a bollocks concept) are enshrined in law and are pretty easy to uphold legally. FGM is illegal, forced marriages are illegal. What more do you need?

Chalalala youve hit the nail on the head there, what do we do when the credit values are not compatible ? Integration then becomes much more complex, humans as a species are tribal and were this way for such a long time and that certainly gives me food for thought.