Part 6: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Sorry, lost the end of the thread there!

Thread 5

There are plenty of posters who agree with Israeli politicians racist drivel. londongirl merrily put up a most vile statement with picture of Golda Meir and her sickening quote:

"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children, but we can never forgive them for forcing us to kill their children"

Absolutely vile statement to put up. Vile on every level. She obviously ascribes to those racist views and gleefully put them up.

There has been plenty of islamophobia on these threads, mainly by Israel supporters.

There have also been other vile views expressed in support of Israel too and lots of victim blaming.

There have been attempts to derail every one of these threads. Its not about pro-israelis differing viewpoint, its the derailment that comes with it - most Israeli apologist want to know the pro-palestinian supporters stance on Syria! Wtf?
If that doesnt work, then shout anti-semitism. If that doesnt work, then start talking about the slogan 'we are all Palestinian' and describe it as wanky, guff, bollocks, if that doesn't derail the thread then personal attack on honey in a pack should do the job.

I am disgusted by the way honey was attacked on here today. It was vicious and uncalled for and personal.

Derailment and deflection and defamation seems to be the magic formula for the Israeli apologists.

what the world thinks of Israel's land grab

Just found out that Vitens which is Netherlands largest water supplier, has cut ties to Israeli water company, Mekorot. Mekorot takes water from the West Bank and then sells it back to the Palestinians.

Boycott Israel! It is working!

Brilliant news yruapita! It keep getting better and better.

well done Vitens. i do believe the boycotting is building. i think US and UK leadership have their hands tied through being in dirty business with Israel and so it's likely to be other european nations we need to look to to lead the way. fingers crossed for the EU dropping free trade status.

Why tf are others being left to pick up the bill for repairing the senseless damage in Gaza? Even that's been obstructed at every turn in the uk, what with the kerfuffle about airing/printing charity appeals for Palestinians and banks closing accounts of charitable organisations. Wtf isn't Israel being forced to pay reparations for all the 'unavoidable collateral damage'? The boycott should be extended to all of Israel's "friends", too.

How come a village can be razed to the ground more than 60 times and no one outside it bats an eyelid? The answer was very clearly stated in the debate on BBC/media coverage organised last week by PSC (now available on their website if you missed it). Whilst the pathetic name calling and tired old detours re Syria/racism are bloody irritating at least this thread isn't being controlled in the same way. Let's keep on sticking up for right for the sake of sanity but let's not waste energy on purposely obstructive irrelevancies.

i know - so others will pick up the bill of repairs and rebuilds knowing full well it's only a matter of time till israel destroys it all again with airstrikes and the like.

i wonder if israel will have to pay the UN for the damage it cause to their property? surely if you blow up an international organisations school or hospital you are expected to recompense them?

Yruapita that is a ray of hope. Am appalled by the ridiculous and toxic turn that this thread was taking.

"even when they're spoken of their distress at the many deaths caused"
That is not an excuse

Fortunate, then, that I'm not obliged to make myself accountable to you

For those with a wider world view, it wasn't meant to be an excuse - merely some small indication that most posters are able to see more than the issue which suits them

I see that the one view extremists have largely taken over the thread since last night, so shall now leave you to it - I wouldn't want to spoil your fun

I suppose the theft of Palestinian homes and land, and the building of Illegal Settlements in the Occupied Territories, makes sense if you consider Palestinians to be Untermenschen; subhumans with no rights who should be cleaned away as vermin.

I have been trying to think of another, alternative mindset that could explain it.

Can anybody think of one?

So sorry Yruapita - should have run it through you first, what with you being self-elected moderator of these threads.

Note to posters: anything you say, unless entirely in favour of Gaza, will be taken down and used against you.

i can't think of another pigletjohn. it's basically a state in which one group (in this case religious/ethnic rather than colour of skin) is treated as superior to all others. the 'others' don't have human rights and can have their land taken as one example of this.

Puzzleandpissedoff:

Funny how those who disagree with you are labelled as one view extremists. And then you sit there pretending to be so tolerant of itgers views lol. This veneer is quite comical esp when the personal attacks seem to be coming from the so called 'civilised' bunch.

Puzzledandpissedoff, there was a long thread on antisemitism about one month ago. You won't be surprised to learn that there were a number of hugely offensive accusations of antisemitism and pro-nazism which were mostly deleted by mumsnet, and so were the angry responses to such lies.

tbh the posters in question haven't made a single argument about why it's been ok for israel to commit these atrocities or any supposed 'other point of view' they claim they're here to represent in ages. instead they've just done pack mentality attacks on posters. i'm still not clear what 'other opinion' they are here to represent.

my opinion stated over and over is that i'm against bombing and killing civilians and pro international law enforcement and human rights. apparently i dismiss people who disagree with me - i'd like to hear who does disagree with that view point and why? is anyone actually pro bombing civilians and anti human rights? it seems more like it's about silencing those who point out what israel is doing rather than attempting to defend it. presumably because it's indefensible

Evening all. I leave this thread for a week or so, and I get called a bullshitter by shakshuka.

Well shakshuka, thanks for that.

Just to be clear, I didn't ask the Israeli soldiers for their birth certificates. I was too busy being terrified. And strip searched.

They may well have been 18,20. They were baby faced. Discussing boyfriend, nail varnish, pop music. Hardly mature adults. They most definitely held armed weapons, which looked, to my untrained eye, like machine guns. They also had hand guns on their hips, in holsters. I'm not a trained assassin so can't call out the exact make and serial number. Jesus wept.

How about you hold off calling me a bullshitter, hey????

You disgust me with your. Insults. It is exactly people like you who want the world to not know what is going on in Israel.

it is hideous - a weapons testing and advertising zone using real life people as targets. 'urban warfare' re: killing fucking civilians in and around their homes.

god it is sickening to watch people talk so lovingly about instruments of death.

Kelly, many people say the same about the soldiers, about how young they look. Ignore the attacks, I have read a few accounts of interriogations and strip searches carried out my Israeli army and they all match what you say, particularly about the babyfaces of the soldiers. In fact, it was your and other posters' accounts that made me read more about the interrogations and I read about the sickening treatment of an Israeli Arab teacher who was strip searched on a school trip with her students. Just twisted.

I can't stomach the weapons stuff. All the 'defence' crap is rubbish. Guns kill. Really not complicated. You don't even need to put it into a 'war' context. Just look at the US accidental home fatalities stats (incl. far too many kids). So when you have tonnes of the most sophisticated stuff available, what else is going to happen? Everyone involved in its manufacture/distribution should be forced to work in the hospitals where the victims end up. And pay for the whole operation to boot.

Meanwhile, lucky for Israel that Isis and Ukraine/Russia is keeping the politicians busy (between rounds of golf and visiting historical attractions that is). Means they can get in just a smidgen more land grabbing... www.jewishjournal.com/israel/article/israel_plans_283_more_homes_in_west_bank_settlement_of_elkana. Ffs.

And more greedy grabbing. www.imemc.org/article/69051. I was heartened to notice the end of aisle offers on loads of boycotted goods when shopping today but BDS is going to take too long at this rate. Really think we need to call a national strike.

Qnboudi, they cant get enough of land can they. Even Israel's first prime minister Ben-Gurion stated that Palestine “contains vast colonization potential” for Jewish settlement to exploit. He also declared "What we really want is not that the land remain whole and unified. What we want is that the whole and unified land be Jewish. A unified Eretz Israel would be no source of satisfaction for me – if it were Arab.” (Source: mondoweiss)

Apartheid South Africa used to justify its racist policies as a heritage from a complicated past. That is exactly what pro-Israelis go on about today - all you hear from them is 'it's complicated'.

“In the Occupied Territories, what Israel is doing is much worse than apartheid. To call it apartheid is a gift to Israel, at least if by "apartheid" you mean South African-style apartheid. What’s happening in the Occupied Territories is much worse.” (Noam Chomsky)

So more land grabbing- there's a surprise.
More international condemnation that won't stop it.
Depressing indeed.